The Trump character type has been clearly defined by the psychotherapeutic community at large for decades. It's called "The Dark Triad" : malignant narcissism with sociopaths AND Machiavellianism. It's a diagnosis. Many have fit this psychosis model but few in recent history have reached equivalent levels of popularity, notoriety and power. We're fucked until we understand that these people can, will and do burn the world down unless they are stopped through actions by the rest of us.
To stop through our actions in Budhist philosophy can be equated with becoming accountable for the social ills of Popularism/pop culture in realization and response. To do nothing [in compassion] is in compliance with their proactiviism... To love ourselves a new Destiney and give no energy to it wether it be smoking or drinking alcohol is the only way to stop. Never will there be a magic pill.
What’s fantastic conversation. Thank you! I must admit, when younger, being perplexed about your gun stance, Sam. But in the context of American culture it obviously makes sense. Growing up in Australia, I’ve never felt the need for a gun—and even more so now, living in Japan. Australia and Japan are much safer because of the lack of guns. In Japan especially, there is a sense of freedom you can feel, never having to worry about physical threats. It’s just such a well functioning society.
Great interview. I especially appreciated the very clear material on free will and determinism and the deep dive in the second half into nonduality and illusion of the self. Also, loved the observation that "the leading edge of practice is the little moments." So true! Anyway, great interview, especially the second half. 🙏
After all these years (and I'm in my 50s), thanks to this episode, I finally understand non-self to a certain extent (if that isn't a contradiction in terms!)
I gashed my left hand deeply tonight while cleaning up after (atheist) easter monday family dinner. Normally, it would have bothered me. But I slipped into non-self mode and rode it out like a charm.
Sam’s fundamental error in his constant polenics over “Free Will” is context/level shift. His arguments whether determinism and free will exist are fine. The problem comes in when he then shifts to try to ascribe “accountability” as an ergo to his asserted "deterministism". “Determinism” exists at a lower level (how the billiard balls knock together), but human “Accountability” exists at a different level.
Think of computer systems. Scripting languages are written on top of compiled lanugages which are written on top of assembler code which is written on top of machine code which are written on top of logic gates which are written on top of the physical properties of charges (and so on). The rules of one level cannot be applied to another level. If you started putting assembler code in your Excel spreadsheet or Javascript in your compiler, you would get a system error.
Proper philosophical logic has very strict definitions of terms and operators in the form of predicate calculus. But “philosophers” like Sam use the “authority” of what sounds like logical argumentation, but it really just sloppy and specious sematics (frankly, much of verbal philosophy boils down to semantics...change a few definitions and the whole argumentation goes in a different direction).
So I buy Sam’s argument that we don’t have “free will”. But that same deterministic system that expunges free will also created the concept of “accountability” in human society for actions (the billard balls bounced into each other more frequently with societies and DNA that operated with accountability). So my programmed and unfree will here is asserting that you all might want to pay attention to the consequences which I hope will be my own billiard ball nudge of influence to affect all your own unfree actions.
Frankly, I am most interested in “philosophy” at the “lived” level (which Dan alluded to) where it affects the welfare of the entities occupying that level. Outside of this “level” such discussions (ie. are the billiard balls “making” us do what we do?”) are a bit of “how many angels can dance on the head of pin” debate that is by definition “meaningless” at the “lived” level.
In the context of relating non-dualistic awareness to playing the piano, are there individuals who are naturally gifted in this form of meditation? Is the Liszt of meditation constantly aware of life's distractions? Do distractions exist for such an individual?
There are prodigies in every field. No reason why meditation would be any different. Although I do think that there are no shortcuts here. Even the best of us need a strong foundation.
I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. You discussed your disappointment with Bill Maher’s dinner with Trump. I’m wondering what your thoughts are on Larry David’s Opinion in The NY Times “ My Dinner With Adolph”?
Personally, I thought it was brilliant. Bill Maher not so much.
In response to the Spielberg part, I am still a firm believer in Russian or chaos trolling to so discord in the US heck it may even be Chinese unless it’s a video of an American throwing Spielberg under the bus there’s no way to tell where they’re coming from trolling is still a big thing. Shall we call it Weaponized trolling?
This is about 22 minutes less than the YouTube version. Curious what was cut and why. In any event, it’s always a pleasure to see you looking so healthy and happy. Thanks for taking such great care of me. I adore you, Sam. 🩷🩷🩷
Interested in what you don't agree with. I often see this general response when truly lucid arguments are made against Trump. "I don't agree 100%." I'd honestly like to where your opinion, understanding, or stance differs.
Isn't Trump taking care of undocumented, potentially dangerous, people to make USA safer than before? At least he says what he thinks; he is open, which is a trait rare in US presidents especially. I live in a 3rd world country and I have seen Americans throw around dictatorship and oligarchy around; I live in it. So, Trump is a course correction or a swing of pendulum, a necessary one. Trump is not empty brained as Sam makes him out to be. I am saying this as a fan of Sam Harris and not of Trump.
The Trump character type has been clearly defined by the psychotherapeutic community at large for decades. It's called "The Dark Triad" : malignant narcissism with sociopaths AND Machiavellianism. It's a diagnosis. Many have fit this psychosis model but few in recent history have reached equivalent levels of popularity, notoriety and power. We're fucked until we understand that these people can, will and do burn the world down unless they are stopped through actions by the rest of us.
To stop through our actions in Budhist philosophy can be equated with becoming accountable for the social ills of Popularism/pop culture in realization and response. To do nothing [in compassion] is in compliance with their proactiviism... To love ourselves a new Destiney and give no energy to it wether it be smoking or drinking alcohol is the only way to stop. Never will there be a magic pill.
What’s fantastic conversation. Thank you! I must admit, when younger, being perplexed about your gun stance, Sam. But in the context of American culture it obviously makes sense. Growing up in Australia, I’ve never felt the need for a gun—and even more so now, living in Japan. Australia and Japan are much safer because of the lack of guns. In Japan especially, there is a sense of freedom you can feel, never having to worry about physical threats. It’s just such a well functioning society.
'Non-gun ownership' is a legitimate position to one's political ideology. 'Peace Time' is not counter-culture to 'War Time'/gun ownership.
Always love seeing Sam catching up with his brother.
I love this format. You're both at your best.
Great interview. I especially appreciated the very clear material on free will and determinism and the deep dive in the second half into nonduality and illusion of the self. Also, loved the observation that "the leading edge of practice is the little moments." So true! Anyway, great interview, especially the second half. 🙏
Distant cousins?
After all these years (and I'm in my 50s), thanks to this episode, I finally understand non-self to a certain extent (if that isn't a contradiction in terms!)
I gashed my left hand deeply tonight while cleaning up after (atheist) easter monday family dinner. Normally, it would have bothered me. But I slipped into non-self mode and rode it out like a charm.
...socioPATHY...
Sam’s fundamental error in his constant polenics over “Free Will” is context/level shift. His arguments whether determinism and free will exist are fine. The problem comes in when he then shifts to try to ascribe “accountability” as an ergo to his asserted "deterministism". “Determinism” exists at a lower level (how the billiard balls knock together), but human “Accountability” exists at a different level.
Think of computer systems. Scripting languages are written on top of compiled lanugages which are written on top of assembler code which is written on top of machine code which are written on top of logic gates which are written on top of the physical properties of charges (and so on). The rules of one level cannot be applied to another level. If you started putting assembler code in your Excel spreadsheet or Javascript in your compiler, you would get a system error.
Proper philosophical logic has very strict definitions of terms and operators in the form of predicate calculus. But “philosophers” like Sam use the “authority” of what sounds like logical argumentation, but it really just sloppy and specious sematics (frankly, much of verbal philosophy boils down to semantics...change a few definitions and the whole argumentation goes in a different direction).
So I buy Sam’s argument that we don’t have “free will”. But that same deterministic system that expunges free will also created the concept of “accountability” in human society for actions (the billard balls bounced into each other more frequently with societies and DNA that operated with accountability). So my programmed and unfree will here is asserting that you all might want to pay attention to the consequences which I hope will be my own billiard ball nudge of influence to affect all your own unfree actions.
Frankly, I am most interested in “philosophy” at the “lived” level (which Dan alluded to) where it affects the welfare of the entities occupying that level. Outside of this “level” such discussions (ie. are the billiard balls “making” us do what we do?”) are a bit of “how many angels can dance on the head of pin” debate that is by definition “meaningless” at the “lived” level.
In the context of relating non-dualistic awareness to playing the piano, are there individuals who are naturally gifted in this form of meditation? Is the Liszt of meditation constantly aware of life's distractions? Do distractions exist for such an individual?
There are prodigies in every field. No reason why meditation would be any different. Although I do think that there are no shortcuts here. Even the best of us need a strong foundation.
I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. You discussed your disappointment with Bill Maher’s dinner with Trump. I’m wondering what your thoughts are on Larry David’s Opinion in The NY Times “ My Dinner With Adolph”?
Personally, I thought it was brilliant. Bill Maher not so much.
In response to the Spielberg part, I am still a firm believer in Russian or chaos trolling to so discord in the US heck it may even be Chinese unless it’s a video of an American throwing Spielberg under the bus there’s no way to tell where they’re coming from trolling is still a big thing. Shall we call it Weaponized trolling?
This is about 22 minutes less than the YouTube version. Curious what was cut and why. In any event, it’s always a pleasure to see you looking so healthy and happy. Thanks for taking such great care of me. I adore you, Sam. 🩷🩷🩷
PS: Happy Birthday Month 🎂🎉🥳
Tired of Sam gaslighting us about free will? Please read and share my rebuttal essay in the spirit of fighting back against intellectual bullying.
https://open.substack.com/pub/jmoss3/p/robert-sapolsky-and-sam-harris-on-b10?r=3my0zq&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Brilliant conversation! Is there a transcript?
Yes, on YouTube where it was originally posted.
Brilliant conversation; can't say I agree 100% with anti-Trump stance.
Sam's take on Trump is some of the most funniest things (although I disagree on a lot of it). Can't stop laughing (and thinking)!
Interested in what you don't agree with. I often see this general response when truly lucid arguments are made against Trump. "I don't agree 100%." I'd honestly like to where your opinion, understanding, or stance differs.
Isn't Trump taking care of undocumented, potentially dangerous, people to make USA safer than before? At least he says what he thinks; he is open, which is a trait rare in US presidents especially. I live in a 3rd world country and I have seen Americans throw around dictatorship and oligarchy around; I live in it. So, Trump is a course correction or a swing of pendulum, a necessary one. Trump is not empty brained as Sam makes him out to be. I am saying this as a fan of Sam Harris and not of Trump.