I really appreciate this concrete example of a sane Democrat. I really thought the conversation was well steered, giving a rounded picture of Torres' views and values, which I applaud almost wholly.
You said, "I really thought the conversation was well steered,..."
Please! Tell me you're kidding.
Ritchie Torres says, “But, you know, the American people have a clear pattern of punishing incompetence.”
An objective observer can’t muster the slightest skepticism or ask for greater clarity on that statement?
What is the percentage of change in the votes cast for Republicans vs. Democrats in these last elections?
In 2012, Republicans 47.2 % vs. Democrats 51.1 %
In 2016, Republicans 46.2 % vs. Democrats 48.2 %
In 2020, Republicans 46.9 % vs. Democrats 51.3 %
In 2024, Republicans 49.8 % vs. Democrats 48.3 %
Go ahead and invoke Trump’s COVID response, or the Democrats' incompetence in managing the migrant crisis, or George Bush's sloppy management of the response to Katrina, or Biden’s sloppy withdrawal from Afghanistan. None of these significantly alter the numbers. Democrats continue to vote Democrat. Republicans continue to vote Republican.
Torres gave three examples of voters punishing politicians. It's going over your head. You don't understand what Sam is trying to do, and it upsets you he doesn't do things the way you would.
The missing factors are money driving misinformation and citizen apathy/stupidity, both of which push Republican. Your point about tribal persistence is a good one, but Torres is also correct that these factors won’t be overcome by incompetence. Impressive man. Alas, we have a poor record electing impressive, thoughtful politicians. Scary numbers about demographics shifting to south. On the other hand, if incompetence is what moves the dial, we should reap a landslide from Trump.
What a refreshing interview. Maybe, just maybe, the future of the Democrats is not as bleak as I feared. I hope there are more rational voices to be heard. And I agree, Josh Shapiro and Pete Buttigieg are my hopes for 2028 and I hope Mr Torres has a long political career.
Ritchie Torres been on my radar for a while, but this is the first time I've had the chance to hear him speak at length. I'm happy to say that I like him even more now than I did before. We desperately need a sane Democratic party, and it does my heart good to hear promising young Democratic politicians speaking so sensibly and articulately. There are others out there, too - even in our strangely moribund Congress.
Here's wishing Torres - and the nation - a great political future.
This was my first time hearing Torres and I was truly impressed. Thanks Sam for spotlighting him. Hopefully we’ll see his views continuing to gain credibility in the party
I’ve been a long-time listener—subscribed before it was cool—and I really appreciate your work and the guests you bring on. But I have to push back on something...
To say the far left has had control of the Democratic Party just doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. For several election cycles now, it's been clear that establishment Democrats have largely dictated candidate selection, actively pushing against progressive voices and the will of the voters (i.e. 2016-2024 elections). The real force driving both major parties isn’t ideological extremism—it’s money. Big donors shape policy and determine who rises in both the Democratic and Republican parties.
Just look at where we are today. The candidates we’ve seen put forward, and the consistent compromises on core moral and political values, make it abundantly clear where the true loyalty lies - and it’s not with Bernie Sanders, AOC, or “woke” students on college campuses.
Instead of trying to cast an impossibly wide net and marginalizing progressive ideas, the Democratic Party has morphed into what amounts to a centrist - or even Republican-lite -organization. If that’s the direction some want to go, fine, but why not take that energy and primary the actual Republicans? Let them take their party back from the MAGA fringe. Let Democrats remain a party that represents liberal, progressive ideals.
American government was designed to be a balance of ideas. What we’re seeing now isn’t balance - it’s a retreat into recycled Reagan-era Republican policies under a new label. There’s clearly an audience for that - "Never-Trump Republicans", "centrist" Democrats, and so on. But there’s also a deep and persistent demand for a party that genuinely champions progressive change. Clinton, Biden, and Harris have all represented that centrist wing—but that hasn’t necessarily reflected what many Democrats and the working class actually want. So why not make space for both?
As for the GOP, Trump’s grip has always been more "cult of personality" than policy platform. Once he exits the stage, it’s doubtful that same fervor will transfer wholesale to someone like JD Vance or any of the others vying to inherit the throne. That creates a real opportunity for rational conservatives and centrists to reclaim their party—and leave room for progressives and liberal democrats to reclaim theirs.
Doing so could restore a genuine balance in our political system. Extremes will always exist, but principled disagreement on policy is not extremism—it’s democracy. I would argue that there are plenty of liberals with sound mind, that also have good ideas on how to approach the problems we face. With good-faith actors on both sides, we might actually move toward a saner, more functional government.
Was Biden being a centrist when he tried to shore up Obamacare and pass Build Back Better? I feel like Biden was fully embracing progressive policy, but getting it done in as practicable a manner as possible. I agree it's happening too slowly, but disagree that Democrats aren't trying. Progressives who won't vote for a candidate unless they promote a maximalist solution unpalatable to most of the country aren't doing their cause any favors.
Worse though, progressives are hobbling the party by claiming real problems, things like crime, homelessness, immigration, drug addiction, inflation, etc. are not problems but are perceived to be so due to racism, xenophobia, classism, and general hysteria. Democrats used to be the party of better solutions to real problems, but now they are afraid to speak the truth to the progressive wing of finger pointers.
Hi Max. I agree Biden achieved some mild progressive policies. The issue with Biden is the push to have him run in the first place, ignoring the voters for who they wanted to elect. That said, he fell short in many ways, along with leading to our current predicament. For me, its less about Biden or the particular candidate and more about the larger picture.
Where I don't agree, is that democrats are "trying". There is so much they could have done to avoid this moment, and they had ample opportunity. They also allowed many things through decades of bad choices that lead to our predicament. I will also push back on the idea that all progressives are lunatic fringies, no doubt those exist, and they annoy me to my core. That said, alot has been amplified by media and the overwhelming encouragement by both parties to keep money as the top influence in politics.
It is for this reason, beyond anything else, beyond any policy a democrat wants to push (centrist or otherwise), that we need to get money out of politics. It is the ROOT cause of why things aren't working, and why we have the congress and division we have at the moment. I would not label myself as a progressive or a centrist or of any "group" at the moment, but it deeply concerns me that we are doubling down on a centrist platform that has been proven time and time again to be in effective.
Why? Because it allows the wealthy minority to craft our policy. There are so many solutions to combat this, but its not going to come from millionaires and billionaires calling all of the shots. This is why I couldn't disagree more with the "Abundance" push in the current moment, and the distractions of the trans and woke culture as being the largest problem. The proof money is the problem is in full and dangerous display every moment of every day and might just finish the job if we don't open our eyes and unite to push back against it, regardless of our particular policy agenda.
I keep going back and forth in my mind on this. I do see how leftist race and gender politics alienated ordinary people. For instance I admit I personally find the term "pregnant people" extremely irksome and disrespectful to women. On the other hand, many liberals would say I'm overreacting and that for most voters, wokism was never a thing and certainly didn't connect the ideology with the democrats.
I agree completely. There are definitely progressives that have gone too far (and continue too). My emphasis is on sane and intelligent policy from the progressive left, which does exist. Part of the problem is that media tends to focus on extreme cases and fringe issues which end up defining a group broadly - and the left in-particular eats it up. Obviously so does the right, to a more dangerous extreme. This leads many to think that the majority on the left think the top priority are issues like trans bathrooms, when in reality it isn't. There are many that do have rational solutions to problems we face (I may have a few myself) that are based on policy and practical solutions. Many politicians have also fuled this fire because the wealthy want to stay in power, and our government is set up to be run by money instead of practical solutions and desperately needed policy for the dangers we face.
As I see it, the core problem is that the extremely wealthy (in both parties) have taken all the power through decades of strategic influence and lead us to the moment. They drive all of the policy and have lead the attacks on the progressive party with these fringe issues, i.e. Bernie's a socialist monster... and so on. That said, I don't agree with a lot of things from the far left or centrists and nothing from the current "republican" party. I'm a lone wolf politically I suppose. This is why I am suggesting we need to take back both parties, not just one. To restore balance, a mix of practical ideas, and change with-out personal wealth and greed by our richest minority being the driving factor. Most of congress has proven and continues to prove they are not up to the task.
This is my first introduction to Mr. Torres, and I’m embarrassed to admit that as a NY/NJ deeply involved in political guy. Thanks for hosting congressman Torres, Sam. I’m grateful that the world has people like him around. ❤️ I’m sold and the future is bright and i hope he can be the Knight in shining armor to save the democrats against this fascist “Mussolini-in the flesh” running the United States
The only reason we have weekends, is because of left-wing politics. In the 19th century, the weekend was the "far-left" issue of its day. Abolitionism was similarly radical once. Being for teaching basic literacy, was radical. A little later, women's' right to vote was on the fringes. These were all progressive left issues.
So we have this type progress in the 19th century and early 20th century. In the mid-20th century there are similarly impressive "far-left" achievements such as the New Deal.
You're going to dismiss this whole aspect of left-wing thought by using "far-left" interchangeably with "woke"?
Not all socialists by any means are on the side of transgender activists. In South and Latin America many socialists tend to be social conservatives. In the United States it's probably true that most socialists are what you'd call "woke", but you might be surprised at the percentages. And in any event it isn't true that the one follows from the other.
There's the further complicating factor that the main people in the Democratic Party pushing "wokeism", were "corporate moderates". Bernie Sanders had little to do with pushing fashionable identity politics ... and his faction lost. So who is "far-left" in this situation?
The Clintons and the Obamas were not particularly woke either. Isn't the reasonable interpretation that this was a movement borne of online hysteria, which had an outsized presence online and particularly facilitated by Twitter, which allowed some terminally online activists to put a lot of pressure on the journalist class and other career professionals, so it managed to exert real-world power even though its tenets were never subscribed to by a majority of the population or the Democratic Party?
Good lord, the Dems cannot jettison their base and win elections. It's incredible how many moderates think there is some big honeypot of eligible voters who are just salivating for this otherwise they'll vote republican There isnt. It's boomer politics thinking 101.
Trump completely understood this whenever he would talk about something his supporters didn't like.
"My big beautiful smart handsome base isn't going to like this next part but maybe the vaccines aren't the worst thing".
And stop accepting bad faith framing of what leftism or progressivism is from a right wing perspective. It doesn't make sense to say the left used to be X but now it's Y. YOU are the one changing your definition when you do this. Your favorite culture war anecdotes to rage against are not "the left".
Also what on earth is this narrative that the far left have captured the Democrat party? Joe Biden Kamala Harris Hilary Clinton Obamacare instead of universal healthcare. No real rich tax increases. No universal child care push. Their example was because Biden did an aggressive executive order around border enforcement but it took too long? Lmao? You guys are talking like Bernie sanders won the last 2 dem nominations and made Abraham X his vice president.
Moderates have complete and utter 100 percent control of the party and demand 101 percent.
Also this talking point of wow look how bad democrat run states and cities are... Compared to what?!??? The other side has no great cities ecenomicslly or culturally and their states are just objectively worse. You guys have to stop swallowing these right narratives. Every time I look up where people who make this point live....it's like NY, LA, SF, Austin or the like. Like move to bumfuck Alabama or methville West Virginia if you think they do governance so much better.
It's frustrating reps can use this as a talking point and democrats can't because the ironic thing is that it's because conservative places are actually in terrible shape whereas democratit ones in comparison aren't that they are able to (punching down vs up)
To understand the talking point you’ll have to look at the 50 biggest cities then the mayor’s party affiliation. You can also look at the trend of state migration. All roads lead to South Carolina, Texas and Florida.
The cities where everyone wants to live and all the wealth and culture and continued GDP dominance and growth comes from are all Democrat lead ya. There are some very very tiny shifts to some red or light pink states, but people are moving to dark blue cities within those states. Not to plus 50 Trump counties.
And the reason they are shifting slightly from Cali and New York is because it's cheaper. No one after selling their Lamborghini for a more affordable Honda Civic tries to make the the argument that's its because the Honda Civic is better.
Why is it cheaper Joe? Thats the conversation that seems to be happening on the intelligent left. Kudos to them for admitting they were wrong about some things (over regulation and bureaucracy to name a few).
This is predicated on the notion that the political dynamics of the left-right are symmetric. In reality, we have no idea what the political proclivities of the left are and how they would react. Remember, Biden beat out Bernie in the 2016 primary.
Also, the democratic base itself might shift if the demographic/electoral shifts as Ritchie is predicting. Democrats simply won't have a choice unless they want to be a permanent minority party.
Why is it cheaper Joe? Thats the conversation that seems to be happening on the intelligent left. Kudos to them for admitting they were wrong about some things (over regulation and bureaucracy to name a few).
At times I thought I was listening to Coleman Hughes. Nice job Congressman Torres. Very straightforward and on point. You’re 37, don’t worry about waiting your turn. Take your shot!
I quit listening to your interview with Richie Torres so I don’t know if the two of you vilified every single group, carving out only the ones that each of you doesn’t fit into personally. Did Torres forget that gay people were in the same boat as trans people are now? Should all of us who stood up for Torres’ right to go on a national podcast and casually mention that he is gay was not possible 10 years ago? I just couldn’t stomach listening to your revisionist history and, of ALL people, hear you spouting anti-intellectualism, the minute it didn’t fit your current narrative. Did you let Torres’ argument undercutting university presidents convince you that free speech on campus is relative? You really need to reexamine your own bigotry.
I didn't hear trans people being vilified. I heard the emphasis on identity politics and some of the extreme positions the trans movement and the left have pushed being called into question. It's possible to be a trans person and a leftist and yet disagree with some of these positions and with making these issues a central focus of the Democratic Party.
Why isn’t every rape in this country considered a political statement against women? In fact every rape is exactly that — it’s an attack on a woman because she is a woman. It isn’t anything else. Yet rape is prosecuted like a drug deal or a theft to be investigated as a crime but it’s not elevated to a hate crime. Why do people react in horror when violence is perpetrated against other groups, but rape is treated like a car accident.
I’m not picking sides on the Israeli Palestinian war when I say that Sam and Torres are blinded by their personal biases and fail to acknowledge the difference between anti Zionism and antisemitism. And I used rape as an example of how targeted violence against any group in which men and their religion/beliefs or wallets are as risk will receive hours and hours of outrage. Rape (in most cases) is violence that happens every single day to a targeted group and I don’t hear the same outrage from Sam Harris every single time he speaks to anyone about anything.
I can't access the NYTimes because I'm not a subscriber. I'm just taking a wild guess here, but if the issue it discusses is a failure to distinguish between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, I would agree that these are often conflated in unhelpful and misleading ways. I don't entirely agree with Sam's perspective on Israel-Palestine, but I've moved away from many decades of being very pro-Palestinian and very critical of Israel to being much more sympathetic with Israel and not at all supportive of Hamas. So I feel quite critical of many of the demonstrations and encampments that have gone on at US universities which I would once have enthusiastically supported. I'm not sure why you bring up rape or what you mean by "the NIMBY-ism in this interview." But at least we agree that focusing on identity politics is not the best way forward for the Democratic Party. I think Torres has much better ideas of what to focus on.
Enjoyed this conversation. Thank you. Please have Pete Buttigieg on your show. He is not just a good communicator. He’s a good thinker and he speaks candidly. It will be a good conversation.
Two intelligent Americans STILL spewing “American exceptionalism”. Get over it. America demonstrably doesn’t work for 96% of its citizens. It is rejected on the world stage from all political directions. The only exceptional thing about the US is the size of its military and economy. And even there, it is unable to deploy this size advantage toward any specific and meaningful goal other than antagonizing the world community. Much of the global distrust and internal arrogance is due to the misplaced idea of its ‘exceptionalism’. You are not a shining city on hill - you have lost your way in the 21st century and are now exceptionally retrograde in almost every social aspect. A little dose of humility is needed.
"If a superpower were intent on planting the seeds of its own decline..." Torres really has his eyes open. Has a nation ever before in history watched its own destruction with as much awareness, observation and scholarly dissection as this one? What are we doing??
This was a great interview with a remarkably impressive guest. Thank you, Sam and Congressman Torres.
Rarely have I ever agreed so wholeheartedly with anyone on such a range of issues.
I really appreciate this concrete example of a sane Democrat. I really thought the conversation was well steered, giving a rounded picture of Torres' views and values, which I applaud almost wholly.
You said, "I really thought the conversation was well steered,..."
Please! Tell me you're kidding.
Ritchie Torres says, “But, you know, the American people have a clear pattern of punishing incompetence.”
An objective observer can’t muster the slightest skepticism or ask for greater clarity on that statement?
What is the percentage of change in the votes cast for Republicans vs. Democrats in these last elections?
In 2012, Republicans 47.2 % vs. Democrats 51.1 %
In 2016, Republicans 46.2 % vs. Democrats 48.2 %
In 2020, Republicans 46.9 % vs. Democrats 51.3 %
In 2024, Republicans 49.8 % vs. Democrats 48.3 %
Go ahead and invoke Trump’s COVID response, or the Democrats' incompetence in managing the migrant crisis, or George Bush's sloppy management of the response to Katrina, or Biden’s sloppy withdrawal from Afghanistan. None of these significantly alter the numbers. Democrats continue to vote Democrat. Republicans continue to vote Republican.
Torres gave three examples of voters punishing politicians. It's going over your head. You don't understand what Sam is trying to do, and it upsets you he doesn't do things the way you would.
The missing factors are money driving misinformation and citizen apathy/stupidity, both of which push Republican. Your point about tribal persistence is a good one, but Torres is also correct that these factors won’t be overcome by incompetence. Impressive man. Alas, we have a poor record electing impressive, thoughtful politicians. Scary numbers about demographics shifting to south. On the other hand, if incompetence is what moves the dial, we should reap a landslide from Trump.
What a refreshing interview. Maybe, just maybe, the future of the Democrats is not as bleak as I feared. I hope there are more rational voices to be heard. And I agree, Josh Shapiro and Pete Buttigieg are my hopes for 2028 and I hope Mr Torres has a long political career.
Thanks very much for this, Sam.
Ritchie Torres been on my radar for a while, but this is the first time I've had the chance to hear him speak at length. I'm happy to say that I like him even more now than I did before. We desperately need a sane Democratic party, and it does my heart good to hear promising young Democratic politicians speaking so sensibly and articulately. There are others out there, too - even in our strangely moribund Congress.
Here's wishing Torres - and the nation - a great political future.
This was my first time hearing Torres and I was truly impressed. Thanks Sam for spotlighting him. Hopefully we’ll see his views continuing to gain credibility in the party
Wonderful, sane, intelligent conversation. Based on what I see and hear here, I see presidential material in Richie Torres for sure. He’d get my vote.
Awesome to see Waking Up contributor, Joan Tollifson here. Enjoyed your chat with Sam.
Sam,
I’ve been a long-time listener—subscribed before it was cool—and I really appreciate your work and the guests you bring on. But I have to push back on something...
To say the far left has had control of the Democratic Party just doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. For several election cycles now, it's been clear that establishment Democrats have largely dictated candidate selection, actively pushing against progressive voices and the will of the voters (i.e. 2016-2024 elections). The real force driving both major parties isn’t ideological extremism—it’s money. Big donors shape policy and determine who rises in both the Democratic and Republican parties.
Just look at where we are today. The candidates we’ve seen put forward, and the consistent compromises on core moral and political values, make it abundantly clear where the true loyalty lies - and it’s not with Bernie Sanders, AOC, or “woke” students on college campuses.
Instead of trying to cast an impossibly wide net and marginalizing progressive ideas, the Democratic Party has morphed into what amounts to a centrist - or even Republican-lite -organization. If that’s the direction some want to go, fine, but why not take that energy and primary the actual Republicans? Let them take their party back from the MAGA fringe. Let Democrats remain a party that represents liberal, progressive ideals.
American government was designed to be a balance of ideas. What we’re seeing now isn’t balance - it’s a retreat into recycled Reagan-era Republican policies under a new label. There’s clearly an audience for that - "Never-Trump Republicans", "centrist" Democrats, and so on. But there’s also a deep and persistent demand for a party that genuinely champions progressive change. Clinton, Biden, and Harris have all represented that centrist wing—but that hasn’t necessarily reflected what many Democrats and the working class actually want. So why not make space for both?
As for the GOP, Trump’s grip has always been more "cult of personality" than policy platform. Once he exits the stage, it’s doubtful that same fervor will transfer wholesale to someone like JD Vance or any of the others vying to inherit the throne. That creates a real opportunity for rational conservatives and centrists to reclaim their party—and leave room for progressives and liberal democrats to reclaim theirs.
Doing so could restore a genuine balance in our political system. Extremes will always exist, but principled disagreement on policy is not extremism—it’s democracy. I would argue that there are plenty of liberals with sound mind, that also have good ideas on how to approach the problems we face. With good-faith actors on both sides, we might actually move toward a saner, more functional government.
Was Biden being a centrist when he tried to shore up Obamacare and pass Build Back Better? I feel like Biden was fully embracing progressive policy, but getting it done in as practicable a manner as possible. I agree it's happening too slowly, but disagree that Democrats aren't trying. Progressives who won't vote for a candidate unless they promote a maximalist solution unpalatable to most of the country aren't doing their cause any favors.
Worse though, progressives are hobbling the party by claiming real problems, things like crime, homelessness, immigration, drug addiction, inflation, etc. are not problems but are perceived to be so due to racism, xenophobia, classism, and general hysteria. Democrats used to be the party of better solutions to real problems, but now they are afraid to speak the truth to the progressive wing of finger pointers.
Hi Max. I agree Biden achieved some mild progressive policies. The issue with Biden is the push to have him run in the first place, ignoring the voters for who they wanted to elect. That said, he fell short in many ways, along with leading to our current predicament. For me, its less about Biden or the particular candidate and more about the larger picture.
Where I don't agree, is that democrats are "trying". There is so much they could have done to avoid this moment, and they had ample opportunity. They also allowed many things through decades of bad choices that lead to our predicament. I will also push back on the idea that all progressives are lunatic fringies, no doubt those exist, and they annoy me to my core. That said, alot has been amplified by media and the overwhelming encouragement by both parties to keep money as the top influence in politics.
It is for this reason, beyond anything else, beyond any policy a democrat wants to push (centrist or otherwise), that we need to get money out of politics. It is the ROOT cause of why things aren't working, and why we have the congress and division we have at the moment. I would not label myself as a progressive or a centrist or of any "group" at the moment, but it deeply concerns me that we are doubling down on a centrist platform that has been proven time and time again to be in effective.
Why? Because it allows the wealthy minority to craft our policy. There are so many solutions to combat this, but its not going to come from millionaires and billionaires calling all of the shots. This is why I couldn't disagree more with the "Abundance" push in the current moment, and the distractions of the trans and woke culture as being the largest problem. The proof money is the problem is in full and dangerous display every moment of every day and might just finish the job if we don't open our eyes and unite to push back against it, regardless of our particular policy agenda.
I keep going back and forth in my mind on this. I do see how leftist race and gender politics alienated ordinary people. For instance I admit I personally find the term "pregnant people" extremely irksome and disrespectful to women. On the other hand, many liberals would say I'm overreacting and that for most voters, wokism was never a thing and certainly didn't connect the ideology with the democrats.
I agree completely. There are definitely progressives that have gone too far (and continue too). My emphasis is on sane and intelligent policy from the progressive left, which does exist. Part of the problem is that media tends to focus on extreme cases and fringe issues which end up defining a group broadly - and the left in-particular eats it up. Obviously so does the right, to a more dangerous extreme. This leads many to think that the majority on the left think the top priority are issues like trans bathrooms, when in reality it isn't. There are many that do have rational solutions to problems we face (I may have a few myself) that are based on policy and practical solutions. Many politicians have also fuled this fire because the wealthy want to stay in power, and our government is set up to be run by money instead of practical solutions and desperately needed policy for the dangers we face.
As I see it, the core problem is that the extremely wealthy (in both parties) have taken all the power through decades of strategic influence and lead us to the moment. They drive all of the policy and have lead the attacks on the progressive party with these fringe issues, i.e. Bernie's a socialist monster... and so on. That said, I don't agree with a lot of things from the far left or centrists and nothing from the current "republican" party. I'm a lone wolf politically I suppose. This is why I am suggesting we need to take back both parties, not just one. To restore balance, a mix of practical ideas, and change with-out personal wealth and greed by our richest minority being the driving factor. Most of congress has proven and continues to prove they are not up to the task.
This is my first introduction to Mr. Torres, and I’m embarrassed to admit that as a NY/NJ deeply involved in political guy. Thanks for hosting congressman Torres, Sam. I’m grateful that the world has people like him around. ❤️ I’m sold and the future is bright and i hope he can be the Knight in shining armor to save the democrats against this fascist “Mussolini-in the flesh” running the United States
The only reason we have weekends, is because of left-wing politics. In the 19th century, the weekend was the "far-left" issue of its day. Abolitionism was similarly radical once. Being for teaching basic literacy, was radical. A little later, women's' right to vote was on the fringes. These were all progressive left issues.
So we have this type progress in the 19th century and early 20th century. In the mid-20th century there are similarly impressive "far-left" achievements such as the New Deal.
You're going to dismiss this whole aspect of left-wing thought by using "far-left" interchangeably with "woke"?
Not all socialists by any means are on the side of transgender activists. In South and Latin America many socialists tend to be social conservatives. In the United States it's probably true that most socialists are what you'd call "woke", but you might be surprised at the percentages. And in any event it isn't true that the one follows from the other.
There's the further complicating factor that the main people in the Democratic Party pushing "wokeism", were "corporate moderates". Bernie Sanders had little to do with pushing fashionable identity politics ... and his faction lost. So who is "far-left" in this situation?
The Clintons and the Obamas were not particularly woke either. Isn't the reasonable interpretation that this was a movement borne of online hysteria, which had an outsized presence online and particularly facilitated by Twitter, which allowed some terminally online activists to put a lot of pressure on the journalist class and other career professionals, so it managed to exert real-world power even though its tenets were never subscribed to by a majority of the population or the Democratic Party?
Good lord, the Dems cannot jettison their base and win elections. It's incredible how many moderates think there is some big honeypot of eligible voters who are just salivating for this otherwise they'll vote republican There isnt. It's boomer politics thinking 101.
Trump completely understood this whenever he would talk about something his supporters didn't like.
"My big beautiful smart handsome base isn't going to like this next part but maybe the vaccines aren't the worst thing".
And stop accepting bad faith framing of what leftism or progressivism is from a right wing perspective. It doesn't make sense to say the left used to be X but now it's Y. YOU are the one changing your definition when you do this. Your favorite culture war anecdotes to rage against are not "the left".
Also what on earth is this narrative that the far left have captured the Democrat party? Joe Biden Kamala Harris Hilary Clinton Obamacare instead of universal healthcare. No real rich tax increases. No universal child care push. Their example was because Biden did an aggressive executive order around border enforcement but it took too long? Lmao? You guys are talking like Bernie sanders won the last 2 dem nominations and made Abraham X his vice president.
Moderates have complete and utter 100 percent control of the party and demand 101 percent.
Also this talking point of wow look how bad democrat run states and cities are... Compared to what?!??? The other side has no great cities ecenomicslly or culturally and their states are just objectively worse. You guys have to stop swallowing these right narratives. Every time I look up where people who make this point live....it's like NY, LA, SF, Austin or the like. Like move to bumfuck Alabama or methville West Virginia if you think they do governance so much better.
It's frustrating reps can use this as a talking point and democrats can't because the ironic thing is that it's because conservative places are actually in terrible shape whereas democratit ones in comparison aren't that they are able to (punching down vs up)
To understand the talking point you’ll have to look at the 50 biggest cities then the mayor’s party affiliation. You can also look at the trend of state migration. All roads lead to South Carolina, Texas and Florida.
The cities where everyone wants to live and all the wealth and culture and continued GDP dominance and growth comes from are all Democrat lead ya. There are some very very tiny shifts to some red or light pink states, but people are moving to dark blue cities within those states. Not to plus 50 Trump counties.
And the reason they are shifting slightly from Cali and New York is because it's cheaper. No one after selling their Lamborghini for a more affordable Honda Civic tries to make the the argument that's its because the Honda Civic is better.
Why is it cheaper Joe? Thats the conversation that seems to be happening on the intelligent left. Kudos to them for admitting they were wrong about some things (over regulation and bureaucracy to name a few).
This is predicated on the notion that the political dynamics of the left-right are symmetric. In reality, we have no idea what the political proclivities of the left are and how they would react. Remember, Biden beat out Bernie in the 2016 primary.
Also, the democratic base itself might shift if the demographic/electoral shifts as Ritchie is predicting. Democrats simply won't have a choice unless they want to be a permanent minority party.
>It doesn't make sense to say the left used to be X but now it's Y.
why not?
Why is it cheaper Joe? Thats the conversation that seems to be happening on the intelligent left. Kudos to them for admitting they were wrong about some things (over regulation and bureaucracy to name a few).
At times I thought I was listening to Coleman Hughes. Nice job Congressman Torres. Very straightforward and on point. You’re 37, don’t worry about waiting your turn. Take your shot!
I quit listening to your interview with Richie Torres so I don’t know if the two of you vilified every single group, carving out only the ones that each of you doesn’t fit into personally. Did Torres forget that gay people were in the same boat as trans people are now? Should all of us who stood up for Torres’ right to go on a national podcast and casually mention that he is gay was not possible 10 years ago? I just couldn’t stomach listening to your revisionist history and, of ALL people, hear you spouting anti-intellectualism, the minute it didn’t fit your current narrative. Did you let Torres’ argument undercutting university presidents convince you that free speech on campus is relative? You really need to reexamine your own bigotry.
I didn't hear trans people being vilified. I heard the emphasis on identity politics and some of the extreme positions the trans movement and the left have pushed being called into question. It's possible to be a trans person and a leftist and yet disagree with some of these positions and with making these issues a central focus of the Democratic Party.
Why isn’t every rape in this country considered a political statement against women? In fact every rape is exactly that — it’s an attack on a woman because she is a woman. It isn’t anything else. Yet rape is prosecuted like a drug deal or a theft to be investigated as a crime but it’s not elevated to a hate crime. Why do people react in horror when violence is perpetrated against other groups, but rape is treated like a car accident.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/03/briefing/antisemitism-colorado.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare I think Sam Harris is missing this important distinction.
I’m not picking sides on the Israeli Palestinian war when I say that Sam and Torres are blinded by their personal biases and fail to acknowledge the difference between anti Zionism and antisemitism. And I used rape as an example of how targeted violence against any group in which men and their religion/beliefs or wallets are as risk will receive hours and hours of outrage. Rape (in most cases) is violence that happens every single day to a targeted group and I don’t hear the same outrage from Sam Harris every single time he speaks to anyone about anything.
I agree with the theory that Dems need to focus less on identity politics. I used trans rights to point out the NIMBY-ism in this interview.
I can't access the NYTimes because I'm not a subscriber. I'm just taking a wild guess here, but if the issue it discusses is a failure to distinguish between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, I would agree that these are often conflated in unhelpful and misleading ways. I don't entirely agree with Sam's perspective on Israel-Palestine, but I've moved away from many decades of being very pro-Palestinian and very critical of Israel to being much more sympathetic with Israel and not at all supportive of Hamas. So I feel quite critical of many of the demonstrations and encampments that have gone on at US universities which I would once have enthusiastically supported. I'm not sure why you bring up rape or what you mean by "the NIMBY-ism in this interview." But at least we agree that focusing on identity politics is not the best way forward for the Democratic Party. I think Torres has much better ideas of what to focus on.
Enjoyed this conversation. Thank you. Please have Pete Buttigieg on your show. He is not just a good communicator. He’s a good thinker and he speaks candidly. It will be a good conversation.
Two intelligent Americans STILL spewing “American exceptionalism”. Get over it. America demonstrably doesn’t work for 96% of its citizens. It is rejected on the world stage from all political directions. The only exceptional thing about the US is the size of its military and economy. And even there, it is unable to deploy this size advantage toward any specific and meaningful goal other than antagonizing the world community. Much of the global distrust and internal arrogance is due to the misplaced idea of its ‘exceptionalism’. You are not a shining city on hill - you have lost your way in the 21st century and are now exceptionally retrograde in almost every social aspect. A little dose of humility is needed.
"If a superpower were intent on planting the seeds of its own decline..." Torres really has his eyes open. Has a nation ever before in history watched its own destruction with as much awareness, observation and scholarly dissection as this one? What are we doing??
Thank you for platforming Congressman Torres. This is the way.