And similarly...."Absolute power corrupts absolutely." We have allowed individuals to amass so much wealth that the next thing they crave is power. It does show his true character that instead of using that power to create an environment conducive of love and compassion on X, he decides to promote hate and fear.
This is a quote by 18th century English theologian Cardinal Newman. The full quote is: Power tends to corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You don't have to agree it was an observation which truth has held up quite well over the ages.
Basically it means power leads to corruption. I think more good comes from power than corruption; hence the human condition having a net improvement over time. The observation by the 18th century human being was made out of ignorance (see my previous comments). It is 100% not a truth because it does not reflect reality. Like most memes, it held up over time because people are taught (or otherwise punished) not to question what they are told. Just because you or a group of people believe something for a period of time does not make it true or a “truth”.
Unless, like I suspect, we are in a progressive bubble. Not politically, but a bubble of progress amidst the slow ache of humans lurching to and fro in history. We wouldn't be the first civilization to collapse in on itself. 18th century human beings had experienced far more salient corruption from power than we have currently, with our comparative rule of law checking humanity's worst impulses. But every action like pardoning violent Jan 6th attackers as heroes and "political hostages" further ticks away at rule of law. Look at every failed state and see corrupt strongman filling the vacuum. I would LOVE to be wrong about all this.
You need to read some books by Steve Pinker. Pinker shows advancements in tech have improved the human condition (increased power) immensely. Yet the amount of conflicts and death from conflicts in the world have steadily gone down. Therefore, history tells us the greater the power; the better the human condition. Basically I would rather be us than dinosaurs…they let a devistating asteroid hit the earth due to ignorance.
what do you mean "how'd it work out"? It's still to be seen over the next 4+ years. It's not like people who said that have obviously been proven wrong.
I’m not too worried about it. Dumb extreme views will correct themselves. The silent majority will act when lines are crossed. Just happened. What’s ironic is the extreme progressives/ socialists on the left led to Trump being re-elected. The socialists are warning people about a threat to democracy… Irony at its finest.
There are a lot of people who identify as Democrats, but are far from “woke”. If you’ve ever listened to S. Harris discuss race and gender politics you’d know what I’m talking about. It’s been unbelievable how maga literally created an enemy by dredging up the ol’ commies and marxists boogymen to label all Democrats. Talk about extreme! And so few bothered to get out of their bubble to look into it, they just played followed the leader.
Fully agreed. Unfortunately, we’re being dragged to chaos by the crowd who are incapable to recognise the ideological extremism of the maga right and the woke left
Agreed. As a middle of the road Democrat, I resent being painted with the broad brush of "far left progressive." Furthermore, I would argue that the vast majority of us Dems are normal moderate souls.
I don’t disagree, they are just the loudest and because you currently need this minority to “toe the line”, it’s really them who make the democrats “toe their line”. It’s unfortunate the most extreme on both sides are who are seen and heard the most.
It’s more worrying that millions of US-based people are prepared to give absolute power to a proven criminal with no regard for moral values or ethical integrity
In the 1970s I'd had a typical American boyhood, influenced by the public morality of Richard Nixon. In the 1990s I I'd had a typical American middle-age, influenced by the private morality of Bill Clinton. Now elderly, the 21st Century gives us a man who combines both: Donald Trump brings us efficiency!
This is an incredibly naive perspective and one that has been repeatedly proven wrong throughout history. Sometimes millions die before extreme views correct themselves. Sometimes they never do.
Naive? Conner, I’m a combat war veteran. Do you really think the land of the free and the home of the brave would allow our freedom to be taken away? No f’ing way
I agree with you on this initial part about the fear mongering. But do you really believe the democratic party is a socialist party? Additionally do you think it is good that one private individual, like Elon, has this much influence over US?
Sorry, I missed your second question. Honestly, I’m not sure how one person vs an industry is any better or worse. Personally, the influencers I’m most concerned about are the food and drug industries. Other influencers I’m concerned about are the teacher unions. Even relatively small groups such as the NRA have large amounts of influence. Perhaps it’s easier to monitor and challenge a single individual vs a larger group or ideology? Haven’t thought about that much…. What are your thoughts?
I think it was correct he was a thread to democracy and we are seeing it everyday. The issue was those who were saying it were not acting as such. They did not bring charges to his obvious crimes till it was too late. They did not tell Biden "no, you are out" and here we are. The message was true but the massagers were very dishonest and everyone is paying for that mistake.
I don’t think it’s a threat. We’re past that already. Our polity has already been damaged by the metamorphosis of the GOP into the Party of Roy Cohn. It’s stopped being a party, and become something else. The cult label is so omnipresent at this point that people glide right over it, but the Republicans in congress have already abandoned their role as members of a separate branch… abandoned any attempt at oversight. That’s the “threat”: that the check won’t check, and the balance is unbalanced. Ditto the Supreme Court. We are headed towards the Imperial Presidency.
They should just start calling Trump “Augustus” or “Princeps”
I think Trump is just a symptom, not the cause. Both parties have abandoned moderates. Toe the line or we won’t fund your re-election campaign. Did you known both parties share a call center in which house representatives spend +30 hours calling people to raise money? (60 minutes did a great episode on it and I’m shocked it isn’t front page news.) Don’t follow that rule, we won’t fund your re-election. The two party system is broken. Fixate on Trump all you want but we aren’t addressing the real reasons moderates were kicked out of both parties. This happened way before Trump. Wake up.
I’m not fixated on Trump. I blame the members of the Roy Cohn Party for abandoning their duty to serve as a separate branch of government. Same with the Supreme Court. If they had any principles at all, then Trump would just be a mad king with limited power. The GOP knew who he was, and cried from the rooftops before he was elected. Then they put on their knee pads.
I can’t seem to find your “wacky cultural issues” over “burn it down” comment but I’d like to respond. Those “wacky cultural issues” impacted so many people including myself regarding workplace culture, affirmative action and the simple ability to think out loud. I can’t remember a time where I was afraid to ask questions. Apparently more Americans felt the wacky cultural issues were worse.
What do you mean by “burn it all down?” What policies are you referring to?
I think the Democrats present a weak alternative. Why is our party so hysterical and so focused on identity politics? I grant that maybe these approaches were the only way to slow down Republican excesses but they're no longer working. They're just a weak distraction from real issues.
I think in this case, he actually has changed and it's not just power. I think it's literally the case that a twitter addiction has broken his sense of reality.
I agree. I think part of this story is his autism. Autistic people are so deeply internalized and introverted that it’s easy for them to lose sight of external objective reality. Elon lives in an incredibly elaborate and gratifying virtual world, i.e. Twitter - in such circumstances a neurotypical person would also struggle to stay connected to objective reality. For someone on the spectrum, there’s no chance.
Elon admitted on SNL that he has Asperger‘s, and there are numerous times where it’s clear he simply can’t pick up social cues. Read Walter Isaacon`s excellent biography of Musk for the excruciating details
I am not quite sure how I would get from being autistic to Elon. Sure, I am introverted, but I am not incompetent. I also don’t think I easily lose sight of objective reality. If anything, I am a little too fixated on objective reality. That’s what made me annoying as a kid along with info dumping about that reality. I am also very attuned to reason-based decision making, not as a hyper fixation, but just as a way of being. So Elon is pretty bizarre by my estimation, even by comparison with the other autistic people I have met.
We can't even agree in this very thread whether he passes that test. It seems like his character is polling somewhere between "very naughty boy" and "existential threat to democracy," with error bars to either side that you could build oh I don't know a Tesla factory on.
I don't think "very naughty boy" and "existential threat to democracy" are necessarily very different... and in fact they could easily overlap. One label is about their behavior, and the other is about the impact of their behavior.
Thank you for your service but that doesn’t change my opinion. We had a civil war! Believing that the US is somehow immune to the same forces that have toppled empires of the past will be our downfall.
Anything is possible. If things snowball out of control, my mindset will change. Until then, I’m not going to worry about it and I’ll focus on things in my control.
How’s the control thing going? You like us not having an FAA director and since 3 plane crashes in 3 days. A halt on hiring when we need more air traffic controllers. You know what happened last time big tarrifs were implemented? Yup, the big depression. You see our stock market today? Why do you think a company like Tesla pays zero in federal taxes. Not to worry, those guys have people like you keeping them going, Bravo! Enjoy the tariffs!
You think Trump caused three plane crashes? We can’t discuss things, we live in different worlds. Tariffs are a long-term approach and likely being used as leverage. Do you have any idea the tariffs that are placed on our goods across the world? Do you think that’s good and/or fair? I doubt you have much awareness in this space, just enough to react to the “news”. I’m so sick of the “news” only telling half the story fixated on tariffs will raise prices short-term without acknowledging the long-term strategy. It’s news preying on the psychology of negativity bias without the masses understanding all for the hopes of increasing the number of views. I don’t own a Tesla Moyra, so I don’t support Tesla any more than most companies. Please, tell me a company that you’re happy with in regard to the taxes they pay. If Tesla is the worst, who is the best? You’re just a bitter, angry person. Say all the insults you want, I’m not mad at you. I hope you find peace and happiness.
Well, he got rid of the FAA director and put a freeze on hiring. Bet if that had have been Obama or Biden you would have jumped in those facts. What do you think of Musk with his external drives and DOGE is not even an official part of government, those have to pass through congress, but I’m sure that’s OK with you? Not bitter but Gary as all hell yes! Musk has all our private information and government information. You think a country needs to be run like a business? Oh well, let’s just get rid of the elderly, they’re wasteful and basically serve no purpose at this point, we’ve used them up, let’s throw them out. And how about the handicapped, get rid of them as well? You don’t even see that they are enacting what Hitler did…. We’re not even set up for the manufacturing they are hoping to bring in, where are those workers? Unemployment was at an all time low. I have plenty of awareness, just listen to some of the best economists, none think that is a good idea. No, it’s not just the news, I read.
That statement, an indictment of our fallible human nature, is so true! All of us can see plenty of examples, in leaders from politics, religion, the corporate world and elsewhere. And it's so interesting, and easy, to observe this in almost everyone who achieves significant power. Once humans acquire power, their character traits, positive and negative, are spot-lighted for all to see. As fallible humans ourselves, we have to be careful to not overlook our blind spot and just notice this in those we dislike or disagree with. Certainly, the truth of this axiom is observable in Trump and Musk, but it's also easy to observe the myriad abhorrent character traits of Biden, Schumer, Pelosi, and others, which power has revealed.
Oh Moyra… I do like saying your name. Very classic… Anyway, I have very much a live and let live mindset. I don’t want to tell anyone what to do and I don’t want anyone telling me what to do. Simple as that. Can’t we have different opinions and be friendly and cordial? Your views are legitimate, I simply have different views and values. If that upsets you, that’s your problem. Have a great day Moyra!
Oh Chuck, thank you, I do love my name too. : ) Yes we can definitely have differing viewpoints but when those with different viewpoints than mine try to enforce what I do, then we have a problem.
I believe it is always incredibly important to set the record straight. So well done.
Anyone with a shred of social awareness will recognize that Elon has psychological problems that put his emotional maturity at about the level of a 14-year-old.
Asperger’s is no longer considered a specific syndrome, but rather a part of a broader Autism spectrum.
According to the Royal College of Psychiatrists, "management of autism itself is chiefly about the provision of the education, training, and social support/care required to improve the person's ability to function in the everyday world".
Musk has as much access to this as any of us. Despite his lack of free will, he should still be able to consider at evidence as dispassionately as he does in business.
As you said, what was once called Asperger's Syndrome is now considered part of the Autism Spectrum. The DSM-5's terminology is Level 1 Autism, which roughly equates to Asperger's. Levels 2 and 3 are more pronounced instances of autism.
Keep in mind that every story has two sides. Without hearing Musk’s perspective—and it’s unlikely he’ll engage at this level—you don’t have enough information to form a fully informed opinion.
You’re free to judge, as so many are quick to do, but until you’ve heard the other side of the story, you can’t claim your opinion is accurate or fully informed. Those attempting to diagnose Musk with a psychological condition—without the proper credentials or any direct interaction with him—are even more absurd. It’s shocking how many people are eager to expose their hatred and ignorance. The most important thing to know is what you don't know and that you do not seek to fill in the blanks with rumor and speculation.
I saw one man jumping up and down on stage gleefully with Trump, re-platforming Alex Jones and double down on retribution and revenge when challenged, while I've seen the other man articulately and consistently address cultural, political and ethical concerns at his own peril and repeatedly address situations where he misspoke or was wrong and mindfully and compassionately engage people he disagrees with. I think many of us have all the information we need to make a mostly informed judgement for how to proceed in our own lives.
I would add a third option - extremely gullible. I know some otherwise moral people who don't think they are taking a lesser evil path, but who literally just believe everything that's fed to them on the MAGA side, to the point where they think everything negative about Trump is made up lies from his political enemies. The genuinely believe he is a good person, sent by God, to fix the country.
I can’t imagine getting much more data on someone’s mind than from Elon’s, as he is one of the most visible and“heard” humans on the planet. If you’re referring to Sam’s account of their personal interactions, I believe Sam as he has earned my credulity in a way that Elon has not.
The dude is the most visible and “heard” human on the planet. If you’re referring to Sam’s account of their interactions, I believe Sam because he has earned my credulity in a way that Elon has not.
Thats saying that Sam is totally unaware.. unaware of reality, that he is caught up in his own emotions & mind. What more do you need than Elon X & Trump worship. He is either sickly ambitious or a less than honorable respectful man of looking up to, other than $$$, which seems be the level which we now give to respect, integrity
Musk has openly shared that he has Asperger's Syndrome, a developmental condition classified under Autism Spectrum Disorder. People with Asperger's often have above-average intelligence but can face significant challenges with social interaction and behavior. Failing to understand and consider this when forming an opinion about Musk reflects a serious oversight on the part of his critics.
Nonsense. The problem being identified with Elon is not to do with his social skills but his honesty & integrity. I've been told before that I am "punching down" on a socially disabled man when I criticise his dishonest rhetoric and this is frankly ludicrous. I strongly resent the implication that being on the autistic spectrum leads one to be unable to distinguish what is true, maintain ethical integrity and recognise cause and effect in one's own actions. My father was autistic and he was the most scrupulously honest person I have ever known. He was, if anything, too unforgiving of lapses in ethical integrity as his autism made him rather rigid. His ability to recognise cause and effect made him a millionaire and was absolutely related to his systemising brain. My daughter is autistic and it is fundamentally difficult for her to say things that are not true or are misleading even in games. She absolutely has integrity and is repelled and mystified by people who do not. She also does particularly well with recognising cause and effect. I am the member of my family least observably affected by autism but I am still affected by it and this may lead me to miss social cues and be somewhat awkward in gatherings and not know what to do with my face in photos, but it absolutely does not make me prone to a lack of honesty or ethical integrity or an inability to recognise cause and effect.
This just isn't a thing. (I have also worked with autistic people for many years). If anything, people with Aspergers are likely to be higher than average in honesty and integrity because they are likely to suffer from a rather excessive need for precision and accuracy and be so focused on having every little detail straight that it can take them forever to feel confident to opine on anything or do so in so much detail that the most salient points get lost in the weeds. Some difficulties with theory of mind can also cause a rather rigid sense of integrity where some autistic people are inclined to be unforgiving of someone behaving in a way that is inconsistent or unethical. This is because they have failed to recognise that somebody else is experiencing strong emotions which can affect their judgement or make them temporarily behave in a way that is out of character and does not define their reasoning abilities or character generally.
Please stop saying that Musk's Aspergers explains or excuses his blatant dishonesty and lack of integrity. It's factually incorrect and insulting to all the autistic people whose attention to detail, precision, accuracy and professional and personal integrity make the world a better place.
“He was, if anything, too unforgiving of lapses in ethical integrity as his autism made him rather rigid”. This has been my experience with autistic people as well, for what it’s worth. And I agree using autism to excuse elon for bad behaviour is quite a stretch.
Someone with a behavioural condition deserves a degree of compassion, it does not give them carte blanche to endanger others with toxic behaviour - whether that's a product of their condition or other outside factors. In this case it seems online radicalisation of the kind that shot up during the pandemic.
Endangering others is what Musk is doing and does on a global scale due to his power. If he were doing similar on a small scale and had no wealth and power, people would be staging an intervention and getting him serious help. As it is we need to help ourselves.
Nope. You’re basically saying that “explaining the reason” behind emotional immaturity is the same thing as negating it. Utter nonsense.
Having a medical diagnosis doesn’t change the fact that he has the emotional reactivity of a child based on his tweets and other behavior that is open for the public to see. SO WHAT if it’s related to a condition like Asperger’s? So what if he is open about it? It changes absolutely nothing. (And I refer you to the comment above of a person who actually has Aspergers themselves, and denies that his emotional immaturity is likely to be from that.)
They’re actually not two sides to every story. If I’m in an argument with a six-year-old about whether there really is a man in the moon or not, there’s only one side to that story. I am so sick of people drawing false equivalences using that phrase.
Elon Musk has demonstrated openly to the world that he is emotionally immature. Trying to say that that last sentence might be untrue because he has explained he has Aspergers is just dumb.
Correct. But when said person has the information on his own diagnosis as well as access to billions of dollars and virtually any Dr or therapist alive, they do have to begin to take responsibility for how their actions are interpreted by others. Using a ASD diagnosis as an excuse for any and all bad behavior is just not taking responsibility for your own actions. Plenty of people with far less resources and intelligence are able to learn to take steps to think of consequences from their speech and actions. If Musk wants to be famous and powerful as well, he's got to start being accountable for his own behavior. Having Asperger's does not mean he is incapable of leaning about social cues or doing introspection.
I actually think someone with ASD who less power and resources may (ironically) be more inclined to take responsibility for their behavior. Most people are not billionaires and trying to get by in day day to life requires managing whatever disorders you have to the best extent possible. On the other hand, if you have Elon's money and power you can be a raging dickhead and get away with it.
Being on the spectrum does not prevent one from understanding the difference between right and wrong. I have a child on the spectrum and his moral compass is firmly intact.
Ah, so we shouldn't say anything. Seems to me that's been going on for a very long time and is largely why we're in the mess we're in, and will likely to continue a decline until we're, indeed, a third world nation. As more and more extremists find platforms and microphones, mental illness will be on rampant display. What should we do Valerie? What's your recommendation?
Interesting how Elon fan-folk are so sensitive suddenly about being woke and how to 'avoid' microaggressions towards the neuro-divergent techbronerds. The double-standard, one-way-street hierarchy of the MAGA Elonald 'fan-folk' is exhausting!
According to the Royal College of Psychiatrists, "management of autism itself is chiefly about the provision of the education, training, and social support/care required to improve the person's ability to function in the everyday world".
Musk has as much access to this as any of us. Despite his lack of free will, he should still be able to consider evidence as dispassionately as he does in business.
Sorry, I'm 69 and have watched this devolution now for a decade and it isn't getting better by being "understanding." Every MAGA I've tried to be nice to and listen to, yell at me and insult me for NOT defending Trump. Look what has happened? Trump is the thug the Republicans dreamed of to grab power AND KEEP IT. Too late to be "understanding," but I'm sorry I feel that way.
You only have to listen to his endless lies about himself, being the smartest most knowledgeable person ever and the constant promises about his cars and rockets that never come true. He is a liar. A self-promoter and manipulator.
Can you be specific? Your comment amounts to name calling as it stands. Elon said he’s the smartest and most knowledgeable person ever? If he did, I’ll agree that’s absurd. Until then, I’ll view your comment as absurd.
Sam Harris has demonstrated himself time and again as someone who strives to be scrupulously honest and willing to own his mistakes. Elon Musk has neither of those qualities, to the best of my knowledge. He has not proven himself to be trustworthy or ethically consistent. Even if he released a statement that cast doubt on Harris’s claim, I would assume it was crafted by a team of screenwriters. Elon Musk can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.
Absolutely agree with this ... I'm among those who occasionally find myself disagreeing, vehemently so, with Sam on some issues, although I'm not among those who elect to "cancel" him over it. But there's no doubt in my mind that his description of how the falling out with Musk went down is absolutely the way it happened. Musk is beyond the pale, absolutely unhinged at this point.
I don’t think Musk is unhinged, he’s just an asshole. He’s a self-entitled manager type who takes credit for the hard work of others. I’ve heard no shortage of tales about Musk where he demonstrates having limited basic understanding of subjects where he’s supposedly an expert. He’s a grifter, a PT Barnum type.
Ok, put aside the text exchanges. Now what "side" do you think is missing? You can make nearly all the same conclusions from publicly available information on X. What piece of missing information do you need? Elon has so very clearly maligned Sam on X. It doesn't take a genius or a leap of faith to read how unfair (and even dangerous given his audience size and propensity to hurl BS) he's been to Sam and others.
Sam’s story about Elon isn’t unique. At some point the evidence—anecdotal, behavioral, and from his own mouth—adds up to a fair representation of the person.
Actions speak Valerie and if you think his actions are those of a person with integrity you are mistaken. Perhaps it isn't mental illness but his known drug abuse (ketamine). Either was Musk tells his side of the story in ignorant, mean spirited and often deliberate lies on his social platform daily.
I feel saddened by this situation, as I have deep respect for both you and Elon. That said, it’s clear that you, Sam, are the more grounded and measured voice here (obviously). While Elon’s brilliance and good intentions are undeniable, his current actions suggest a misalignment with the moral clarity we need at this critical time. I believe he has the capacity to reflect and adjust, but his present approach falls short of the thoughtful, honest, and balanced leadership humanity truly deserves. Thank you for speaking your truth and striving to hold Elon accountable. Hopefully, he will find his way back to a more constructive path.
As someone who has been in Recovery (12 step) for over 30 years, Elon's behavior over the last 3+ years closely mirrors that of an addict who has crossed over the threshold, losing any ability to return to "sane" behavior. Once that threshold has been crossed, the capacity to reflect and adjust is lost.
What is he addicted to? Probably immunity. He is now immune, through money, contracts, technologies and associations, from recrimination or consequences of any kind. POTENT.
But, the universe is self-correcting, so there is that.
100% - I know a lot about ketamine addiction and it absolutely leads to delusional grandiosity. We need an intervention. Narcissistic psychopaths make up at most 5% of the human population, but in a world of 8 billion people that’s a lot of narcissistic psychopaths and they are all banding together and creating this powerful psychopathic autocrat of their new world order together.
There’s only one force powerful enough to stop that and that is the 95% of us who are not narcissistic psychopaths cohering together and absolutely putting a stop to this bullshit nonsense.
He abused the hell out of stimulants when I was close enough to his orbit to know. He and Trump have that in common. He didn't work those sleepless weeks ramping to mass production on sheer willpower! Ketamine makes sense, but I can't speak to that directly.
Listening to Duncan Trussel describe candidly his past struggle with Ketamine overuse really shed light on the dissociative power of ketamine. I obviously don't know the private details of Elon's use beyond what he has stated publicly but I feel it must play a role in his departure from where he was mentally before the twitter debacle.
This is exactly the kind of baseless speculation that shouldn’t be spread. Elon Musk has openly stated that he uses ketamine in small, medically supervised doses—about once every other week—to manage depression. While ketamine does carry the potential for misuse and addiction, there is no publicly available evidence suggesting that Musk is addicted. In fact, he has directly addressed concerns about overuse, noting that excessive use would interfere with his ability to manage his demanding workload. A compassionate person wouldn’t make unfounded accusations of addiction, and a wise one would recognize that such claims dangerously verge on libel.
The question at hand here isn't addiction - it's whether chronic ketamine use might have caused the personality changes Sam is reporting. It's a solidly established fact that ketamine can cause personality changes, particularly with long term use. It's not libel, it's a well-founded hypothesis that ought to be discussed.
It's also solidly established that Covid infection can cause at least transient personality changes.
We should be speculating about that hypothesis too. It could plausibly be both/and - chronic ketamine use could have exacerbated Covid-induced brain damage. The timing of the personality changes suspiciously fits the hypothesis.
While I’m not attempting to diagnose Musk from a distance—and I don’t think Sam or anyone else should either—I do know that he has Asperger's syndrome. Individuals with this form of autism often struggle to communicate in ways that neurotypical people perceive as normal or socially appropriate. It’s ironic that someone on the far left, who often claims to value compassion and understanding, Sam wouldn’t consider that before launching such a harsh and public attack—one that feels like a schoolyard bully rallying others to join in.
You're right. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. It's just that some opinion's are more grounded than others.
Sam really isn't 'far left'
But if you want to belabor the point please do share a few 'far left' views that Sam shares and outline how sharing those positions means that he is, above all else, 'far left'
How is Sam far left when he constantly talks about the dangers and derangement of the far-left and woke liberalism? How is he far-left when he is concerned about the influx of immigrants? It is not a matter of opinion - you are just wrong.
I suppose it depends on your definition of far left. For me, His views on guns and identity politics alone automatically exclude him from the far left.
Sam's setting the story straight is NOT an attack, but rather a completely appropriate act of self-defense. This kind of victim-blaming is uncalled for.
I think you are wrong on this. And, there are heaps of way more harsh whistle-blowing testimonials about Elon's uncoolness out there than what Sam reveals here. Sam is absolutely spot on. Elon has crossed the line into the 'dark triad' spectrum of 'Cluster B' anti-social personality disorders - a Machiavellian Narcissistic Psychopathy.
This very repeated pattern of ruining close friendships absolutely needs to come out. There can be a dark side to being on the spectrum. All of this is not black-and-white. It’s all a big gray area. We want to heal Elon. I have tons of compassion for the abuse he received as a child in South Africa. I’ve read ‘The Power of One’ and I know how traumatic the bullying in the school systems is. I also know because I grew up in a family like Rupert Murdoch’s and Errol Musk’s, and all of these world power grabbing social Darwinist oligarchs.
I believe you meant Machiavellian—I’ve never heard of Mac Pavilion. Machiavellianism is a personality trait, not a form of psychosis. It is not a mental illness characterized by a disconnection from reality, which is the defining feature of psychosis. It’s clear that you don’t fully understand these terms and concepts well enough to make a diagnosis of Musk from afar.
Machiavellianism is usually regarded as one of the three vertices of the Dark Triad, psychopathy and narcissism being the two other. Putin is the ultimate creature of Machiavellianism.
Please rtesearch the 'the Dark Triad' - it's a wild world of mental disorder diagnosis out there. you are encouraged by myself to take what you need and leave the rest.
How do you "know" he has Asperger's? The people who I know with diagnosed Asperger's don't, really can't, lie. They always tell the truth, even when not convenient or appropriate. Elon lies a lot. And if you're relying on Elon's assertion that he has Asperger's, it was a lie. If there was a fair market, I'd bet a lot of money he does NOT have Asperger's.
With all due respect, you are not qualified to determine who does or does not have an autism spectrum disorder. Emphasis on the word "spectrum" signifies a wide range of symptoms and behaviors that can vary greatly from person to person. (Pro tip: Recognizing what you don’t know is the most important wisdom.)
To be clear, Valerie, I never claimed to know that he doesn't have Asperger's; I speculated that he doesn't. He has lied so much over the years (funding secured, FSD, solar roof are the most well-known. A more comprehensive list is here: https://elonmusk.today/) that I have no reason to believe him. To the contrary, when he says in the same interview that he's "absolutely obsessed with truth", my conviction that he doesn't have Asperger's strengthens and I wonder if he's just the ultimate conman.
https://www.plainsite.org/realitycheck/tesla.html is another list, albeit stale, of the fraud and lies. Aaron highlights the continued deception / lies by Elon on social media and elsewhere, but I don't think he's put it in one file since 2020.
Asperger's Syndrome is a lifelong neurodevelopmental condition. While individuals with Asperger's can develop coping strategies and adaptive skills over time, it does not go away and isn’t something one simply "overcomes." Accusing someone of using their diagnosis as an "excuse" shows a lack of empathy and understanding. It dismisses the real challenges neurodivergent individuals face and unfairly oversimplifies their behavior. A more compassionate and thoughtful response is to consider a person’s intent and context rather than making assumptions. Criticizing someone without recognizing their neurological differences not only reflects ignorance and a lack of awareness—it’s also its own form of "acting shitty."
I believe that you might be missing the main point and still don’t fully understand the situation. The accusations you made do not seem to be shared by most people here. It would be wise for you to reflect on this and think twice before digging yourself deeper into this hole.
Not sure why you are going out of your way Valerie to defend a man who is continually going out of his way to hugely spread misinformation and disinformation and promote far right causes and tip the scales of multiple elections. Who cares how neurodivergent he is! We need to figure out a way to prevent his neurodivergence from causing autocratic and technocratic chaos!
So we should default to assuaging the dysfunction of the neuro-divergent? Individuals with Asperger's (I was married to one) certainly do have the ability to learn and hold the knowledge of good/bad. Their ability to communicate in ways the neurally normal can be comfortable with (a ridiculous idea on the face of it - what is normal) is a challenge, but not impossible.
Your experience with just one person with Asperger's is, in scientific terms, statistically insignificant. This is considered anecdotal evidence and isn’t enough to support broad conclusions. Keep in mind that Asperger's is part of the Autism Spectrum Disorder—spectrum being key—which reflects a wide range of symptoms and behaviors that vary greatly from person to person.
Moreover, in a time when we’re encouraged to understand and accommodate the differences of others, especially those with disabilities, your suggestion that we shouldn't "default to assuaging the dysfunction of the neuro-divergent" reveals not only a lack of understanding but also a lack of tolerance and compassion. Is it really necessary to nitpick Musk's communication style?
What makes you feel that he didn't 'consider that?'
What makes you believe that having A's means that you can't be judged as a moral person with integrity and social awareness? (read the Helen Puckrose comment above)
As for 'harsh' - tbo I don't think it was harsh. It as a calm rebuttal of attacks made against him by a man will a gigantic megaphone. As for 'schoolyard bully' - I can only conclude you have never had the ill fortune to come across one, because they most definitely do not behave as did SH.
A diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome would not account for his erratic behavior and the chaos he is unleashing with smears, conspiracy theories. and meddling in the business of the US Congress. Most of the engineers in Silicon Valley are priobably somewhere on the spectrum, and yoiu don't see them behaving similarly. There is clearly more going on than Asperger's tand that does warrant rebuke.
I feel that it is ok for Sam to tell others what actually happened as to why he had a falling out with Musk, and Sam has obviously come to the point in his life, where he needs to publicly express what happened, from his own personal experience of events. There is nothing harsh about this at all. This is being brave and vulnerable, to tell his version of events from his honest perspective.
He is not and never was the "Chief Engineer" of anything. He used his part of his dodgy family's dodgy fortune made in Blood Diamonds and Conflict Gems in the Afrikaner wars to BUY companies from the Original Creative Geniuses who started them, then run them out and steal the credit for himself. He also violated the law when he came here on a student visa and then worked, which makes his citizenship open to revocation. His drug usage means he can't get the top security clearances to run Space-X. On top of that he's an Unreconstructed Afrikaner White Supremacist pig, like his Nazi-loving buddy Peter Thiel.
Let's not give pricks like Francis a leg to stand on by overblowing our case, eh? Tesla would 100% be dead without Elon. I was there. I know you want him to both be a POS and dumb, but we aren't blessed with a simple reality. He's BEING dumb now out of self-interest and self-delusion.
i think Tesla’s auto and battery business is bankrupt - how he’s propping it up is because he’s up to many other terrible things that are generating alternative ‘income’ or ‘financial favors’.
truly - that is a minor nit pick for you to even be concerned about considering the evil-natured mental Illness of our New World Autocrat🤮. Give it a rest.
That may all be true (not going to research all of those claims right now), but it's also true he's done substantial technical work of his own. The man has done software engineering, at the very least. He has founded his own companies, not just taken over existing ones that were already on the path to success. He has made decisions regarding capital and personnel for multiple companies that have gone on to be enormously successful.
I'm unsure why people try so hard to prove the idea that he's unintelligent, or simply lucky, or simply Machiavellian enough... and that this alone explains his wealth/success/whatever one likes to call it. I think it's a cowardly approach, because it means we're pretending not to have a very real and very important question in front of us:
Why, in this day and age, is an intelligent and wildly successful person like Musk so uninterested in being constructive, and so interested in being a mega-troll? Again, it's not merely that he just doesn't care about other people. At this point, I'd happily accept a Musk that does nothing but go on cruises on his super yacht. The one we have is so much worse than that.
This is a question we should want to answer thoroughly so that we can act on those answers. Because the current state of things doesn't seem sustainable. I'd offer that Musk is simply the most visible victim of a disease of social media, but maybe that's not it.
Two million people are or more do 'software engineering' straight out of college every year worldwide. If there is one genius level product from the mind of Musk I would like to know about it. Actual technical work not business manipulation 'work'. And he was lucky when Compaq bought and average software idea from them at an enormous overvaluation.
Yeah, I just don't see this as a serious response. Do two million people or more do something like what Musk did at zip2? Just take what happened there, by itself. I don't even need to disagree with the idea that Compaq bought it at an enormous overvaluation. The fact is, if Musk had competition, and if Compaq knew about it, they could've gone somewhere else. They could've offered less. They didn't. And this enormous success has been dwarfed by Musk's achievements since.
I'm unsure what you mean by "genius level product". No, I don't think Musk ever personally produced something like PageRank. But Falcon 9 is a billion-dollar product. Model 3 is a billion-dollar product. And Musk played a substantial role in both of those things happening, even if he never wrote a line of code, or even solved a simple equation. I know this, because I'm an engineer.
It's not just about technical work, it's about noticing opportunities that others don't, and finding a way to execute (either through your own technical skills, or by employing the right people). And it's about doing that, multiple times.
I'm not claiming Musk is a technical genius... I'm claiming that his success is in substantial part a result of who he is. Technical competence, drive, vision, intelligence, adaptability, etc. were part of this.
Again, I'm confused by this need for all of Musk's achievements to have nothing to do with his positive traits.
Walter Isaacson's biography on Musk contradicts everything you say. He had unrestricted access to Elon, his family, friends and coworkers for two years.
I believe Elon seems to struggle with fully recognizing the extent of his power and influence—at least, that's my hope. It’s hard to imagine that he’s entirely unaware, but sometimes, in our earnest desire to speak our minds and act with the best intentions, we can become misguided and fail to grasp the impact we have on others. I hope Elon can take a step back at some point and recalibrate in this respect.
Being on the spectrum may play a role in how he navigates these dynamics, though I’m unsure to what extent. Additionally, I think Elon has always craved and enjoyed attention, and the unprecedented level he’s receiving now must be intoxicating. When you combine that with the constant, endorphin-fueled feedback loops of Twitter/X, it’s easy to see how it could cloud judgment and amplify impulsivity.
Maybe. And of all of the nepo babies of South African gem merchants I know about, he might be the most ethical. But there's also the possibility that he's just a chronically online shitposter who also happens to be rich, which may or may not have to do with the gem merchant thing. Sometimes people are psychologically deranged and the reasons are overdetermined, you know?
I wish I could spend one day with Elon Musk just him and I because I come from a similar old family lineage that has been prescribing to this white supremacist New World order for ever since the holy Roman empire, and I also know a lot about ketamine addiction, and this person needs a lot of healing and I could totally guide him and I’ve reached out to him, but I will not go on X and so if anybody knows how to put me in contact with him I would love to offer him a Freeday of healing recovery.
I’m not jealous and I agree with Joe. no brilliant person would have looked at Covid and said the things Musk said publicly (and now we know, privately).
have you seen the recent footage of Elon talking to the firefighters in LA about the pressure system? OMG, it’s like Elon doesn’t even understand the engineering of the LA water system and what was happening there? This guy is a total plant. He is not an engineering genius. We need an intervention.
Yep. Everyone says he’s a genius. Including Sam lol but all evidence I see of Elon actually doing something suggests he’s not a genius and in many cases is below average intelligence.
This is inaccurate and painfully wrong. Please retract. CalFire and LAFD are complete heroes. If you have politics on this, it lays elsewhere in LA/CA and NOT with the firefighters. Please retract.
I hear you and I saw that later. I think this is much more complex and much bigger a fire than the fire fighters "letting" the city burn. The system failed, not the firefighters. And that system has a lot of players, from Sacramento to local LA and more. That was my key issue with your comment. Peace and to better times....
There isn't enough water in ALL of California to put out fires that are spreading because of hurricane force winds. Don't blame the heroes. These fires are unprecedented.
No. You are wrong. Easy to see why you would think so from how he's advertising himself these days, but having been in the room with him 10-15 years ago with other extremely intelligent people, he isn't or wasn't unintelligent. He has (or had) raw intelligence in spades. He would real-time process tona of information coming at him, and if your logic and work wasn't buttoned up he would find it. Unfortunately like any tool, intelligence can be misused and squandered. He used to be aligned with goals that were productive and (politics aside) beneficial to humankind. He was never a GOOD person, and that is a trillion dollar problem. The addict bought the drug factory and it's all been downward spiral into stupidity from there. Nothing more dumb than squandered potential.
I agree this is part of it, but this motivation is coming from what, in particular? The impact of a pandemic on his businesses?
I suspect there were quite a few people roughly in Musk's position who took a very different tack. They responded "normally", looking to experts in the field... or simply waiting quietly to see what would happen.
He must've already been knee-deep in nonsense by the time the pandemic hit. Fell in with the wrong crowd?
And many are motivated to believe he's not to maintain their parsimonious world view. I've seen it first hand, have you? (I'm not denying he's lied, cheated, and stolen his way up from his humble emerald-mine-heir origins. But he had a real hand in technical things without which Tesla and SpaceX would not be where they are.
Many believe Elon is one of the best video game players in the world. It turns out he’s been hiring someone to play the game for him and get his character to the top. When observed playing the game he is a pretty average video game player.
Elons genius is always hidden. Very little evidence he possesses superior engineering ability than an average engineering grad.
Look into the hyper loop and replacing planes with rockets for some clear examples of his terrible engineering ideas. More component engineers had to talk him down.
If Elon is a genius at anything it’s taking credit for other people’s work and getting most people to believe he’s is the mastermind.
Thank-you for this comment. I understand from a lot of reading that intelligence can be focused along one or several related streams. One can be a brilliant metaphysicist yet not understand how digestion works. I respect elon for his entrepreneurial skills. But he’s certainly not someone from whom I’d take medical or parenting advice! One thing I do believe about him is he’s obsessive about money and will deal with bad people like putin for personal profit over the nation’s best interests.
I think there are people who are quite bright in certain things, and woefully blind on others. Not being alert to one’s own cognitive biases often allows us to fool ourselves into thinking we have a situation sussed, when the reverse is true.
See, that's an unserious response, and Sam explained in his essay why. We saw what was happening in other countries by the time the bet was made.
And again, to bolster his position, Musk cited statistics about how many Americans had died from COVID-19 up to that time. This is a nonsensical point to make for obvious reasons: we cannot expect casualties, or a casualty rate, from a communicable disease to remain anything close to constant in the early days of an outbreak. This is a simple applied math problem.
We had the information we needed by March of 2020 to know this was going to be a big deal, and that we'd hit -- easily hit -- 35k cases. However, some people weren't paying that much attention. Maybe Musk just wasn't paying much attention. I think it's more likely he was paying attention, but that his attention was just on sources that were (to say the least) disreputable.
There are quite a few people in this thread who argue Musk is just stupid. He certainly behaves like a stupid person on twitter, so there's something to this: "stupid is as stupid does". But we also know that he's almost certainly a quite intelligent person. He has looked at situations and noticed potential solutions that others haven't. He has correctly evaluated the skill and dedication of engineers and managers that he subsequently employed. He has managed to convince other intelligent people (importantly, investors) to help him with his work.
In my view, just calling Musk stupid, or downplaying his achievements to the point where his contribution was nothing but luck, is a cowardly way to evaluate the situation.
What we have here is an intelligent and very successful person... who acts like a stupid person. He has been co-opted by bad ideas. And these bad ideas lead him to bad behaviors.
I did actually lol that’s when I sold my Tesla stock. I was thinking this guy is unstable and unserious. Jokes on me I guess. We live in an era where unstable and unserious people rise to the top.
On a hunch I sold two-thirds of my crypto! I believe Elon has had so much influence on that market that, watching his latest antics, it might be heading for another crash…
As someone who has watched, respected and followed Elon at length for nearly 10 years, this story makes perfect sense. Elon has absolutely lost it. The man who I felt could help turn the tide of western civilizations decline, keep free speech a priority, help push us into a new yet cautious future when it came to AI and robots and who might even be able to put enough backing behind a moderate(dare I say centrist) presidential candidate for then to win, has disappeared. He has grown increasingly disconnected from reality and honestly has become so incredibly childish over the past 3 years that I have blocked him on every social media simple because I can’t stand seeing the BS anymore. It’s sad, he could have accomplished so much in bettering the west, he threw it all away to join the conspiracy cabal.
Elon has been purposely deceiving people for decades.
One time when he was dating Amber hurst, and I think Jennifer Laurence or someone else from Hollywood was there that they were trying to impress, some beautiful actress, Errol Musk came in and the topic of Donald Trump came up. Errol Musk began praising Donald Trump and said ‘you know, he’s one of us’ to Elon and his brother in front of the Hollywood actresses. The women were shocked and basically went into the usual reaction to any mention of Trump, which is that he’s a disgusting buffoon.
Later, when they were no longer in the presence of the American actresses, Elon and his brother got really mad at their dad for praising Donald Trump in front of the girls that they were trying to impress. And that is when Errol explained to his sons that Trump‘s family was on the same team as their family. and what was the game that that team was playing? Social Darwinist autocratic New World Order.
That is when Elon realized that he could not reveal to his Silicon Valley or most American acquaintances what his and his family’s true politics and ideology stood for. He has absolutely been deceiving us about who he is. We are now seeing who he truly is. He totally made up a lie about how he was estranged from his father because he didn’t want people making the political connections about this New World order agenda.
Source or you made that shit up. Who would even be reporting that? Maybe you've been on social media too long and think disembodied cameras just follow the action around?
I’ll totally post the interview. I’ll be right on it. It’s I listen to an hour and a half interview with Errol musk saying these words out of his mouth what do you think it was an AI fake or something?
Sam, you need to stop saying things like, "we fully align" on immigration, the woke mind virus, etc. with people like Elon. I've heard your takes on these issues many times, and while you're not "woke" you're also not aligned with these people. It makes you seem a) ignorant of their views (you need to do your research better-get a team if you have to), b) trying to maintain your heterodox bonafides (you don't need to keep pointing out how un-woke you are for cred), c) like your only argument with these people is that they are being a bit mean but for the most part they are correct on substance. They are nefariously using and often twisting this information i.e., the decade old UK grooming gang scandal for political ends to stoke hatred and make personal gain. They aren't confused. And your friends aren't scared of Elon, they agree with him for the most part, and their incentives are financial and social. Look at Hegseths hearing, the only questions he was asked by Republicans was about DEI and wokeness. This is what all your friends are doing everyday all day to stay in with their right Leaning audiences. You don't do that. Stop aligning yourself with these people even in theory it's embarrassing to those of us who follow you.
Please read the relevant paragraph again. Doesn't this cover it?
"The problem with Elon, is that he makes no effort to get his facts straight when discussing any of these topics, and he regularly promotes lies and conspiracy theories manufactured by known bad actors, at scale. (And if grooming were really one of his concerns, it’s strange that he couldn’t find anything wrong with Matt Gaetz.)"
First, thanks for taking the time to reply, Sam. Forgive the length of my response but I do hope you take the time to read it. There are a few issues that that paragraph does not cover when it comes to what I think of, as being in alignment with someone or something. I think you may mean a general agreement about the existence of certain issues (i.e., the US border was handled poorly and needs addressing), but when you speak about others who not only hold those views, but are obsessed and consumed by it, you make it sound like there is very little daylight between you. I don't think the constant throat clearing on your part is necessary or helpful. Even if you disagree that's not what you're trying to do or say, I believe that you're really doing yourself a disservice and I hope you may consider communicating it differently because at the moment you seem to want to bend over backwards to not set yourself apart from the people you criticize. And then there are, sorry to say Sam, other failings of your attention to detail in some of these cases. I'd like to point out the difference between you and others that you should more clearly embrace and also suggest some improvement on your end if I may be so arrogant. Trust me, all offered in the spirit of Lex Fridman level love.
In my view, alignment is not just a matter of agreeing that there are certain issues in society, it's also a matter of how central or existential you think the problem is and how exteeme your responses are to it. In other words it's also about proportionality and behaviour. If you were fully aligned with Elon and others we would see it in your output. Thankfully we do not. Did you consider even for one second, voting for Trump because of the border, or because of Trans women in sport, or because of cringe DEI policy? Of course not. Its one thing to agree that the US border has been a debacle, or that DEI policy is cringe at best and damaging at worst, but the attention given to it and subsequent behaviour of powerful people matters. Leave the conspiracies aside. Elon and your other friends/ex-friends believe woke policies in academia is the biggest deal on the planet (you can add the rest, i.e., everything Trans). How do we know this? Because it's all they ever talk about, and they will fit it in anywhere, especially in response to criticism of themselves, their friends, or Trump. More than that, they have literally carried water for, or proactively worked within their powers and platforms, to re-elect Trump. This wasn't just Elon, it was rife across the whole alternative media sphere. These names of current and former friends is pretty long, Sam. Lex, Eric, Brett, Joe, Dave, Elon, Konstantin, Gad, JBP. They are not all the same, but these people are definitely far more aligned with each other than they are with you. If they can't defend, they minimize, or make false equivalencies, some outright lie, some I believe are having years long mental health episodes (i.e., Brett).
I do see a lot of alignment among these people you have been, or are currently connected to and you can tell by their output if you pay enough attention. Lex for example, doesn't simply refrain from criticizing Elon, he praises him at every opportunity (they pretty much all do). Is that fear? Opportunism? Or do they actually believe that Elon and Trump are that wonderful? Either way, YOU don't let your opinions be swayed by fear, or opportunism, and your not an idiot as far as I can tell. So no, you're not aligned with these people. Take that as a win and stop saying stuff like that, for your own sake.
Lastly, in terms of the research issue. I'll offer you one example (there are lots but I've gone on long enough). You said recently to Bill Maher that you didn't think JBP was in Trumpistan. Are you aware that pre-election he did an entire podcast on psychoanalysing Trump and his band of baffoons (Elon, Vivek, Gabbard, RFK Jr.) which was full off nothing but praise and outright lies to promote the importance of electing him president. That is not Trump adjacent that is right in the thick of it. He has a lot of other material that is pretty reprehensible too. You seem to base your opinion of him on a time (your public debates) when he was a bit more sane. He is a lost cause. If you haven't watched that podcast, you should because it's an eye opener. If you have seen it and pass it off as nothing, I'm baffled. I don't expect that you should know everything anyone has ever said. Your off X, your not online 24/7 like Destiny. But when it comes to these big fish, if you're going to associate or be linked to them, I would keep very update to date on the crap they are selling beyond the horizon of your attention.
Hope you and your family are well, and that your home is safe. All the best.
Well said... I don't envy Sam's (or anyone else in the public sphere) responsibility to stay up-to-date with what all of the other public figures are saying. What a mess.
Wouldn’t that imply (if he makes no effort to get his facts straight, promotes lies and conspiracy theories) that you don’t “fully align” on these topics? Either he believes the lies, and you have different views on the topic, or he cynically repeats them, knowing they are false, and his views are essentially opaque? I agree with the above sentiment; “we fully align” is probably too strong of a statement.
LOL! Has Elon been learning obligation management techniques from the Felon in Chief?... or is it vice versa? ... chicken or egg, but now it's a vicious circle.
How don't people get this? This is just variation of "there are no benevolent dictators".
Benevolent billionaire is simply a flawed system and no matter how much goodwill or other social band aids you put on it it'll never scale to what we actually need. It's incredibly frustrating to observe this tbh.
Well said Sam. Musk has become a threat to democracy and I heard he will have an office in the White House. I truly believe we are an oligarchy, and have been for many years. Musk managed to bring Bezos and Zuckerberg into the oligarchy orbit to seal the deal, so to speak.
Regarding the LA fires, I look forward to your assessment of the state and local government role in this tragedy. Before, during, and hopefully soon , after the fires are tamed.
I thought he wrote that on his last posting? He evacuated, are you saying they were lucky enough to have not lost their house? I’d be very happy if you could confirm that. Thank you.
Having been evacuated for three long weeks from a fire in '20, it is very hard to know what's going on inside the evacuated area. Early responders are not prioritizing making public social media posts. Satellite heat maps can't distinguish between fire and hot smoke columns. I thought my house was gone for sure, until photos and videos from the neighborhood started to leak out over a week later. Wildfire is very chaotic and whole neighborhoods burnt with a few random survivors (or the inverse) is the norm, not the exception.
My two cents: He and his family might still have effectively lost their house. I think the wrote that most of the neighbourhood was burned down, including stores, his daughters' school, etc etc. So even if his house is still standing, it might be impossible to have a normal life in the neighbourhood for months or years to come
Point well taken. I have a son and DIL who’s pregnant with their first child in SW LA County. So far they’ve been spared except for the awful air quality. So, wife and I have been watching things more closely than the average person outside of CA. We are on the East Coast.
“Based on several reports received in the middle of the night, I became nearly certain that we had lost our home. Later evidence has convinced me that it was spared—while two doors away houses were destroyed. “
100% Sam. The world as we know is appears to have devolved into one devoid of any sense of decency. Its the Jerry Springer show writ large, and nobody seems to realize how uncool Elon, Trump and the entire cadre of right wing bozos in Washington are. Dogs still seem to be able to sniff each others asses, but humans, at least in this country, no longer care about or are able to discern the fact that the person they are listening to is a total douche.
I read someplace that "intelligence without wisdom is dangerous". Maybe Robert Sapolsky. Anyway, to our great peril, we tend to conflate intellgence and wisdom, intelligence and virtue. Give me average minds with ethics and humanity over these brilliant libertarian tech child-men. Please.
A post like this takes immense courage and integrity and is the kind of thing that makes me proud to pay to subscribe to Making Sense. The fact so many others won't speak out, even rich powerful people, goes to show it's not local councillors in Rotherham, England who are afraid of speaking up.
I love this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDZ9REOh2xA&t=23s), which I think really gets at the heart of what makes him great. What he talks about may seem simple and obvious but having the combination of intelligence, experience, confidence, and work ethic to make it work is incredibly rare in a CEO.
At the same time, he is also clearly a borderline autistic, uninformed, overconfident, braggadocio, whose political opinions and beliefs about social change shouldn't be given the least bit of deference.
It amazes me that some people struggle with accepting the fact that both of these things can be true.
The problem is systemic. Elon Musk is just the greatest example of it at the moment: the problem is an erosion of authority and the narcissism that steps in to take its place. By that I mean, there is nothing that keeps Elon Musk in his lane of the highway, namely building great things. He is allowed to swerve all over the place and even find himself speeding along in a lane that requires great empathy and understanding of human beings on a micro and macro scale. He does not possess these skills and he will never be able to develop them to the extent required. But the state of our democracy at the moment allows this kind of reckless driving not only to occur, but it gets applauded.
That’s a good point, however it doesn’t surprise me. We like simple things - something is good or bad. Seeing every side of something makes it complex and confuses the simple value judgement. It requires much more effort.
I will forever find Sam's defense of Trump's "both sides" statement perplexing. Trump wasn't saying "I think the white supremacists were good people"- this is true. But he WAS saying that there were many good people who attended the unite the right rally. In other words, while white supremacists and neo nazis were at the rally, many of the other people there were good people. This is hard to reconcile with the facts on the ground at the march. Once the rally started engaging in things like chanting "jews will not replace us" and the other despicable things that the rally engaged in, good people would have left. Trump was well aware of this during the press conference- he had been discussing it prior to saying to there were good people on both sides.
Why is it so atrocious to say that Trump's statement about "good people" was inclusive of people who participated in a pretty disgusting march?
ETA: To be clear, I'm saying that it's awfully hard to claim that someone isn't a neo nazi or white supremacist when they march in a literal white supremacist/neo-nazi rally. Sure, they might not have filled out the registration card to join the groups, but their actions speak pretty loudly. And not leaving the rally once it became clear what was happening speaks very loudly to someone's character. Calling someone a good or fine person after attending such a thing is a pretty despicable statement, and one that I don't have any problem criticizing Trump for making.
This is 100% true. If you read the transcript, Trump makes it clear that people who support traitors like Robert E Lee are "very good people." From my view, Confederate-supporting who love Robert E Lee are not in fact "very fine people."
💯 Sam has a blind spot on this one. Agree with & appreciate him on so much of what he thinks & writes about but this and his position on gun safety/control (as well as some inaccurate & misleading takes on Kamala Harris he's shared) truly perplex me.
I can't often fault Sam's reasoning, but I think he sometimes weighs the importance of things badly. It's gotten noticeably better since he left Xitter, but he still gets hung up on the principle of certain issues in ways that make the outcome (real effects on real people now) worse.
Unfortunately, now-a-days, we simply cannot imagine the potential that we have been influenced by either an AI generated fake video or by algorithms. I find on frequent occasion somebody who just seem spot on might have a very different take than me on one specific incident. I’m starting to chalk it up to AI fakes.
He was clearly trying to draw an imaginary line between the boogieman Bad Racists and his supporters. As so often happens with him everybody spun it wrong, EXCEPT his supporters. They heard it loud and clear that he knows they're just reasonable people with reasonable concerns about the purity of their society or whateverthefuck. The left spectacularly diluted their message of rightfully shaming the racist outburst of that event by getting the details wrong and giving them an out.
I think it’s motivated reasoning. He made it explicit in this post: “Not only have I never advocated lying to defeat Trump, I’ve taken great pains to defend Trump from the most damaging lie ever told about him.”
He uses that example to earn credibility with trump supporters. If he’s willing to point out when the left lies about Trump, his critique of Trump appears less likely to be based on lies. At this point he’s too invested in using that talking point to that end to look into the issue any further
I don't take issue with folks defending the statue. As I said above, I take issue with the people who heard a group of men carrying tiki torches chanting things like "Jews will not replace us!" and decided not to leave. THAT'S who Trump was saying were fine people.
If I showed up to a pro-choice rally and started hearing leftists chanting "From the River to Sea" I would leave, even though I am unabashedly pro-choice. The people who wouldn't are either supporting the statement or so unfeeling about how awful it is so as to be fine with it and being associated with it. Neither of those choices make someone a "good" or "fine" person.
Hanging around with white supremacists and neo nazis WHILE they're having a neo-nazi white supremacist rally makes you a bad person. Calling out Trump for saying the opposite is completely fair game.
If I realized I was surrounded by literal white supremacists and neo-nazis then yes, absolutely I would leave. Why on earth would you march in lock stop with those men? If you think that’s okay then you waive the right to be outraged when people say you were marching with nazis and white supremacists- it’s what you’re literally doing. When they start chanting horrific things and you continue to march with them then it signals, at a minimum, that you acquiesce to and don’t object to those statements.
I think the fact that Elon feels the need to lie and pretend he is one of the best gamers in the world says enough about his ego. Its as fragile as it comes. This is probably out of sight for most people, but he recently streamed on X playing the highly anticipated Path Of Exile 2 game. He was on one of the highest level accounts atm, while pretending it was his to look like a chad to the gaming community, which he so much identifies with… Its just such a lowpoint for the worlds richest man.
I was going to point this out as well. And the Razzing from the gaming community streamers probably hurts his ego more than most people could understand. It truly says a lot about where he is now , and perhaps how he has been for a long time.
Update on this story: Elon removed a big streamers checkmark on X and went on a rant about how this streamer sucks at video games, after the streamer calling out his fake gaming. He reversed it for damage control, this is just beyond embarrassing…
I know Trump, musk, teal, Putin. They are all just weak flailing around with their patriarchal phallic weapon systems. The 99% of us who are not narcissistic psychopaths need to put a stop to this we must cohere!
What I find most unusual about his behavior of late, is that despite being extremely intelligent, he appears to be taking tweets on X posted by random people and agreeing with their apparently unsourced fact-based statements, or their opinions posing as facts, simply because of confirmation bias. While I certainly have my own opinions, there is NO source on the Internet that I do not question, and source for myself. Even from Sam. :)
I despise anything that falls in the category of 'gossip' and decline to discuss the character of individuals and instead address ideas unless they are simply impossible to separate from an individual. This is one of those cases. When it comes to the richest and, arguably, most influential person in the world and his dubious relationship with the truth, it is particularly important to set the record straight and address the lack of honesty and integrity.
We really need to care about what is true and hold people who don't care about what is true in low esteem until they rectify this failing. Nothing else will incentivise them to do so. If people continue to reward those who engage in ideologically-biased narratives and partisan speaking points with no attempts to be accurate, fair-minded and self-aware about the tendency to motivated reasoning and confirmation bias that we all have, we will just spawn more people willing to do that.
I am always vulnerable to accusations of indulging in my own motivated reasoning and confirmation bias when it comes to criticising Musk, Trump or the right more broadly because I am open about being left-wing myself. I would be very unlikely to ever vote right even when right-wing leaders are honest, principled and care about what is true because I favour left-wing policies overall.
However, I would remind people inclined to dismiss my critiques as partisan bias that I have spent the last decade criticising those on the left who prioritise ideological narratives over what is true and hold illiberal views and helping people to protect themselves from being impacted by these ideologies. Many of those people have been ethical conservatives whom I respect and recognise as essential to a well-functioning liberal democracy.
You are needed more than ever right now, ethical conservatives. We need you not to make the same mistake that so many well-intentioned people on the left did when they minimised the problem of illiberalism and rejection of truth on the left because they felt that those people, while over-zealous and not altogether rational, were a minority and had their hearts in the right place while the illiberal elements on the other side did not. The liberal left is reaping the consequences of not having acted decisively to get its own house in order and hold those who held illiberal values and rejection of truth in low esteem and prevent them from forming a dominant moral orthodoxy that did great harm.
Don't succumb to the same trap, genuine conservatives who care about what is true and value your cultural heritage and want to conserve the principles underlying your own liberal democracies. Please be alert to those on your own side who do not care about what is true, who hold authoritarian values and spout ideologically-biased narratives divorced from reality and seek to form an illiberal moral orthodoxy based on those narratives. Don't let them. Hold firm to your conservative philosophical traditions that values evidence and reason and truth and your cultural heritage of liberal democratic values that foregrounds individual liberty and individual responsibility. Yours is a noble and steadying political philosophy that holds societies steady and rejects the revolutionaries and reactionaries.
All of us who care about evidence-based epistemology and consistently liberal principles must come together now to push back the ideological narrative builders and illiberal story-tellers, but ethical conservatives are those best able to do this on the right and we all really need you to do that.
I remember Ms. Pluckrose fondly from the remarkable "Sokal Squared" hoax some years ago, which was very telling - and very funny!
Alas, her collaborators in that admirable project appear to have lost their minds in subsequent years. I last encountered James Lindsay ranting about "white genocide", and Peter Boghossian giving a speech - in Hungary, I believe - in which he sounded like Col. Jack D. Ripper from Dr. Strangelove, except that it was (of course) the woke people rather than the commies who were going to drain us of our precious bodily fluids.
I dislike woke stuff intensely and am gratified to see it finally receding. But, my God, the professional and obsessive anti-woke people somehow manage to make woke people look sane by comparison! I get the feeling that some of the professional anti-wokesters find it difficult to make out a shopping list without taking a few swipes at "cultural Marxists" or whatever. "Ah! The grocery store is out of the cereal I usually buy! It's because of diversity training! No, it's the trans agenda! Well, they'll never make me take their damn vaccine!"
At this point, I just assume that anyone who was even tangentially connected to the "Intellectual Dark Web" - and whose last name is not Harris, of course - has become a hysterical anti-woke crank. I am therefore happy and relieved to have my priors corrected, ever so slightly, by seeing Helen Pluckrose commenting on Sam's Substack, writing the sorts of eminently reasonable things for which I remember her in years past.
"If you want to test a man's character, give him power."
And similarly...."Absolute power corrupts absolutely." We have allowed individuals to amass so much wealth that the next thing they crave is power. It does show his true character that instead of using that power to create an environment conducive of love and compassion on X, he decides to promote hate and fear.
Always corrupt, power reveals.
I disagree with that common phrase….no one has absolute power and not everyone with great power uses it to be corrupt.
This is a quote by 18th century English theologian Cardinal Newman. The full quote is: Power tends to corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. You don't have to agree it was an observation which truth has held up quite well over the ages.
Basically it means power leads to corruption. I think more good comes from power than corruption; hence the human condition having a net improvement over time. The observation by the 18th century human being was made out of ignorance (see my previous comments). It is 100% not a truth because it does not reflect reality. Like most memes, it held up over time because people are taught (or otherwise punished) not to question what they are told. Just because you or a group of people believe something for a period of time does not make it true or a “truth”.
Unless, like I suspect, we are in a progressive bubble. Not politically, but a bubble of progress amidst the slow ache of humans lurching to and fro in history. We wouldn't be the first civilization to collapse in on itself. 18th century human beings had experienced far more salient corruption from power than we have currently, with our comparative rule of law checking humanity's worst impulses. But every action like pardoning violent Jan 6th attackers as heroes and "political hostages" further ticks away at rule of law. Look at every failed state and see corrupt strongman filling the vacuum. I would LOVE to be wrong about all this.
You need to read some books by Steve Pinker. Pinker shows advancements in tech have improved the human condition (increased power) immensely. Yet the amount of conflicts and death from conflicts in the world have steadily gone down. Therefore, history tells us the greater the power; the better the human condition. Basically I would rather be us than dinosaurs…they let a devistating asteroid hit the earth due to ignorance.
This might be the best-aged Substack in existence, given the last week.
People are still using the “threat to democracy” line? How’d that work out for you? Maybe try something else.
what do you mean "how'd it work out"? It's still to be seen over the next 4+ years. It's not like people who said that have obviously been proven wrong.
I’m not too worried about it. Dumb extreme views will correct themselves. The silent majority will act when lines are crossed. Just happened. What’s ironic is the extreme progressives/ socialists on the left led to Trump being re-elected. The socialists are warning people about a threat to democracy… Irony at its finest.
There are a lot of people who identify as Democrats, but are far from “woke”. If you’ve ever listened to S. Harris discuss race and gender politics you’d know what I’m talking about. It’s been unbelievable how maga literally created an enemy by dredging up the ol’ commies and marxists boogymen to label all Democrats. Talk about extreme! And so few bothered to get out of their bubble to look into it, they just played followed the leader.
Fully agreed. Unfortunately, we’re being dragged to chaos by the crowd who are incapable to recognise the ideological extremism of the maga right and the woke left
Agreed. As a middle of the road Democrat, I resent being painted with the broad brush of "far left progressive." Furthermore, I would argue that the vast majority of us Dems are normal moderate souls.
I don’t disagree, they are just the loudest and because you currently need this minority to “toe the line”, it’s really them who make the democrats “toe their line”. It’s unfortunate the most extreme on both sides are who are seen and heard the most.
It’s more worrying that millions of US-based people are prepared to give absolute power to a proven criminal with no regard for moral values or ethical integrity
Bill Clinton was a very effective president imo.
In the 1970s I'd had a typical American boyhood, influenced by the public morality of Richard Nixon. In the 1990s I I'd had a typical American middle-age, influenced by the private morality of Bill Clinton. Now elderly, the 21st Century gives us a man who combines both: Donald Trump brings us efficiency!
This is an incredibly naive perspective and one that has been repeatedly proven wrong throughout history. Sometimes millions die before extreme views correct themselves. Sometimes they never do.
Naive? Conner, I’m a combat war veteran. Do you really think the land of the free and the home of the brave would allow our freedom to be taken away? No f’ing way
I agree with you on this initial part about the fear mongering. But do you really believe the democratic party is a socialist party? Additionally do you think it is good that one private individual, like Elon, has this much influence over US?
I don’t think the average democrat is a socialist but it’s a fact the progressives are. They don’t try to hide it.
Sorry, I missed your second question. Honestly, I’m not sure how one person vs an industry is any better or worse. Personally, the influencers I’m most concerned about are the food and drug industries. Other influencers I’m concerned about are the teacher unions. Even relatively small groups such as the NRA have large amounts of influence. Perhaps it’s easier to monitor and challenge a single individual vs a larger group or ideology? Haven’t thought about that much…. What are your thoughts?
I think it was correct he was a thread to democracy and we are seeing it everyday. The issue was those who were saying it were not acting as such. They did not bring charges to his obvious crimes till it was too late. They did not tell Biden "no, you are out" and here we are. The message was true but the massagers were very dishonest and everyone is paying for that mistake.
The tobacco industry convinced a lot of people that cigarettes were safe. How did that work out for them?
I don’t think it’s a threat. We’re past that already. Our polity has already been damaged by the metamorphosis of the GOP into the Party of Roy Cohn. It’s stopped being a party, and become something else. The cult label is so omnipresent at this point that people glide right over it, but the Republicans in congress have already abandoned their role as members of a separate branch… abandoned any attempt at oversight. That’s the “threat”: that the check won’t check, and the balance is unbalanced. Ditto the Supreme Court. We are headed towards the Imperial Presidency.
They should just start calling Trump “Augustus” or “Princeps”
I think Trump is just a symptom, not the cause. Both parties have abandoned moderates. Toe the line or we won’t fund your re-election campaign. Did you known both parties share a call center in which house representatives spend +30 hours calling people to raise money? (60 minutes did a great episode on it and I’m shocked it isn’t front page news.) Don’t follow that rule, we won’t fund your re-election. The two party system is broken. Fixate on Trump all you want but we aren’t addressing the real reasons moderates were kicked out of both parties. This happened way before Trump. Wake up.
I’m not fixated on Trump. I blame the members of the Roy Cohn Party for abandoning their duty to serve as a separate branch of government. Same with the Supreme Court. If they had any principles at all, then Trump would just be a mad king with limited power. The GOP knew who he was, and cried from the rooftops before he was elected. Then they put on their knee pads.
I can’t seem to find your “wacky cultural issues” over “burn it down” comment but I’d like to respond. Those “wacky cultural issues” impacted so many people including myself regarding workplace culture, affirmative action and the simple ability to think out loud. I can’t remember a time where I was afraid to ask questions. Apparently more Americans felt the wacky cultural issues were worse.
What do you mean by “burn it all down?” What policies are you referring to?
I think the Democrats present a weak alternative. Why is our party so hysterical and so focused on identity politics? I grant that maybe these approaches were the only way to slow down Republican excesses but they're no longer working. They're just a weak distraction from real issues.
See fall of Rome
See fall of Rome
I think in this case, he actually has changed and it's not just power. I think it's literally the case that a twitter addiction has broken his sense of reality.
I agree. I think part of this story is his autism. Autistic people are so deeply internalized and introverted that it’s easy for them to lose sight of external objective reality. Elon lives in an incredibly elaborate and gratifying virtual world, i.e. Twitter - in such circumstances a neurotypical person would also struggle to stay connected to objective reality. For someone on the spectrum, there’s no chance.
Elon admitted on SNL that he has Asperger‘s, and there are numerous times where it’s clear he simply can’t pick up social cues. Read Walter Isaacon`s excellent biography of Musk for the excruciating details
If Elon is autistic to some degree and Putin has Asperger’s Syndrome, what does Trump have?
I am not quite sure how I would get from being autistic to Elon. Sure, I am introverted, but I am not incompetent. I also don’t think I easily lose sight of objective reality. If anything, I am a little too fixated on objective reality. That’s what made me annoying as a kid along with info dumping about that reality. I am also very attuned to reason-based decision making, not as a hyper fixation, but just as a way of being. So Elon is pretty bizarre by my estimation, even by comparison with the other autistic people I have met.
I am responding to the other guy, not you. When I click reply it just nests them weird. Take a breath.
Along with a Ketamine addiction!
We can't even agree in this very thread whether he passes that test. It seems like his character is polling somewhere between "very naughty boy" and "existential threat to democracy," with error bars to either side that you could build oh I don't know a Tesla factory on.
I don't think "very naughty boy" and "existential threat to democracy" are necessarily very different... and in fact they could easily overlap. One label is about their behavior, and the other is about the impact of their behavior.
Thank you for your service but that doesn’t change my opinion. We had a civil war! Believing that the US is somehow immune to the same forces that have toppled empires of the past will be our downfall.
Anything is possible. If things snowball out of control, my mindset will change. Until then, I’m not going to worry about it and I’ll focus on things in my control.
How’s the control thing going? You like us not having an FAA director and since 3 plane crashes in 3 days. A halt on hiring when we need more air traffic controllers. You know what happened last time big tarrifs were implemented? Yup, the big depression. You see our stock market today? Why do you think a company like Tesla pays zero in federal taxes. Not to worry, those guys have people like you keeping them going, Bravo! Enjoy the tariffs!
You think Trump caused three plane crashes? We can’t discuss things, we live in different worlds. Tariffs are a long-term approach and likely being used as leverage. Do you have any idea the tariffs that are placed on our goods across the world? Do you think that’s good and/or fair? I doubt you have much awareness in this space, just enough to react to the “news”. I’m so sick of the “news” only telling half the story fixated on tariffs will raise prices short-term without acknowledging the long-term strategy. It’s news preying on the psychology of negativity bias without the masses understanding all for the hopes of increasing the number of views. I don’t own a Tesla Moyra, so I don’t support Tesla any more than most companies. Please, tell me a company that you’re happy with in regard to the taxes they pay. If Tesla is the worst, who is the best? You’re just a bitter, angry person. Say all the insults you want, I’m not mad at you. I hope you find peace and happiness.
Well, he got rid of the FAA director and put a freeze on hiring. Bet if that had have been Obama or Biden you would have jumped in those facts. What do you think of Musk with his external drives and DOGE is not even an official part of government, those have to pass through congress, but I’m sure that’s OK with you? Not bitter but Gary as all hell yes! Musk has all our private information and government information. You think a country needs to be run like a business? Oh well, let’s just get rid of the elderly, they’re wasteful and basically serve no purpose at this point, we’ve used them up, let’s throw them out. And how about the handicapped, get rid of them as well? You don’t even see that they are enacting what Hitler did…. We’re not even set up for the manufacturing they are hoping to bring in, where are those workers? Unemployment was at an all time low. I have plenty of awareness, just listen to some of the best economists, none think that is a good idea. No, it’s not just the news, I read.
perfect
That statement, an indictment of our fallible human nature, is so true! All of us can see plenty of examples, in leaders from politics, religion, the corporate world and elsewhere. And it's so interesting, and easy, to observe this in almost everyone who achieves significant power. Once humans acquire power, their character traits, positive and negative, are spot-lighted for all to see. As fallible humans ourselves, we have to be careful to not overlook our blind spot and just notice this in those we dislike or disagree with. Certainly, the truth of this axiom is observable in Trump and Musk, but it's also easy to observe the myriad abhorrent character traits of Biden, Schumer, Pelosi, and others, which power has revealed.
Sorry but that is just false equivalency. What have those that you mentioned done that really affects people personally?
Thanks for helping me make my point!
“Give me power. Give me money. I don’t care.”
Chuck wants the oligarchs to run America.
Oh Moyra… I do like saying your name. Very classic… Anyway, I have very much a live and let live mindset. I don’t want to tell anyone what to do and I don’t want anyone telling me what to do. Simple as that. Can’t we have different opinions and be friendly and cordial? Your views are legitimate, I simply have different views and values. If that upsets you, that’s your problem. Have a great day Moyra!
Oh Chuck, thank you, I do love my name too. : ) Yes we can definitely have differing viewpoints but when those with different viewpoints than mine try to enforce what I do, then we have a problem.
I believe it is always incredibly important to set the record straight. So well done.
Anyone with a shred of social awareness will recognize that Elon has psychological problems that put his emotional maturity at about the level of a 14-year-old.
A 14 year old who IS NOT an Aspergian. As an Aspergian myself, I can say that no one on that spectrum acts as he does by choice.
Asperger’s is no longer considered a specific syndrome, but rather a part of a broader Autism spectrum.
According to the Royal College of Psychiatrists, "management of autism itself is chiefly about the provision of the education, training, and social support/care required to improve the person's ability to function in the everyday world".
Musk has as much access to this as any of us. Despite his lack of free will, he should still be able to consider at evidence as dispassionately as he does in business.
As you said, what was once called Asperger's Syndrome is now considered part of the Autism Spectrum. The DSM-5's terminology is Level 1 Autism, which roughly equates to Asperger's. Levels 2 and 3 are more pronounced instances of autism.
Keep in mind that every story has two sides. Without hearing Musk’s perspective—and it’s unlikely he’ll engage at this level—you don’t have enough information to form a fully informed opinion.
His actions aren’t enough? Can we judge any public figure for any action?
You’re free to judge, as so many are quick to do, but until you’ve heard the other side of the story, you can’t claim your opinion is accurate or fully informed. Those attempting to diagnose Musk with a psychological condition—without the proper credentials or any direct interaction with him—are even more absurd. It’s shocking how many people are eager to expose their hatred and ignorance. The most important thing to know is what you don't know and that you do not seek to fill in the blanks with rumor and speculation.
I saw one man jumping up and down on stage gleefully with Trump, re-platforming Alex Jones and double down on retribution and revenge when challenged, while I've seen the other man articulately and consistently address cultural, political and ethical concerns at his own peril and repeatedly address situations where he misspoke or was wrong and mindfully and compassionately engage people he disagrees with. I think many of us have all the information we need to make a mostly informed judgement for how to proceed in our own lives.
Honestly anyone supporting Trump is either broken morally or is taking the ‘lesser evil’ path to a near infinite extreme.
I would add a third option - extremely gullible. I know some otherwise moral people who don't think they are taking a lesser evil path, but who literally just believe everything that's fed to them on the MAGA side, to the point where they think everything negative about Trump is made up lies from his political enemies. The genuinely believe he is a good person, sent by God, to fix the country.
I'd say the same for anyone who supported Harris for president.
I can’t imagine getting much more data on someone’s mind than from Elon’s, as he is one of the most visible and“heard” humans on the planet. If you’re referring to Sam’s account of their personal interactions, I believe Sam as he has earned my credulity in a way that Elon has not.
Elon, we know it’s you.
The dude is the most visible and “heard” human on the planet. If you’re referring to Sam’s account of their interactions, I believe Sam because he has earned my credulity in a way that Elon has not.
Thats saying that Sam is totally unaware.. unaware of reality, that he is caught up in his own emotions & mind. What more do you need than Elon X & Trump worship. He is either sickly ambitious or a less than honorable respectful man of looking up to, other than $$$, which seems be the level which we now give to respect, integrity
Valerie please wake up
All we do is hear his “perspective!” The guy doesn’t shut up!!
As I said, anyone with a shred of social awareness knows enough to see a huge problem there, even if based solely on his tweets.
Musk has openly shared that he has Asperger's Syndrome, a developmental condition classified under Autism Spectrum Disorder. People with Asperger's often have above-average intelligence but can face significant challenges with social interaction and behavior. Failing to understand and consider this when forming an opinion about Musk reflects a serious oversight on the part of his critics.
Nonsense. The problem being identified with Elon is not to do with his social skills but his honesty & integrity. I've been told before that I am "punching down" on a socially disabled man when I criticise his dishonest rhetoric and this is frankly ludicrous. I strongly resent the implication that being on the autistic spectrum leads one to be unable to distinguish what is true, maintain ethical integrity and recognise cause and effect in one's own actions. My father was autistic and he was the most scrupulously honest person I have ever known. He was, if anything, too unforgiving of lapses in ethical integrity as his autism made him rather rigid. His ability to recognise cause and effect made him a millionaire and was absolutely related to his systemising brain. My daughter is autistic and it is fundamentally difficult for her to say things that are not true or are misleading even in games. She absolutely has integrity and is repelled and mystified by people who do not. She also does particularly well with recognising cause and effect. I am the member of my family least observably affected by autism but I am still affected by it and this may lead me to miss social cues and be somewhat awkward in gatherings and not know what to do with my face in photos, but it absolutely does not make me prone to a lack of honesty or ethical integrity or an inability to recognise cause and effect.
This just isn't a thing. (I have also worked with autistic people for many years). If anything, people with Aspergers are likely to be higher than average in honesty and integrity because they are likely to suffer from a rather excessive need for precision and accuracy and be so focused on having every little detail straight that it can take them forever to feel confident to opine on anything or do so in so much detail that the most salient points get lost in the weeds. Some difficulties with theory of mind can also cause a rather rigid sense of integrity where some autistic people are inclined to be unforgiving of someone behaving in a way that is inconsistent or unethical. This is because they have failed to recognise that somebody else is experiencing strong emotions which can affect their judgement or make them temporarily behave in a way that is out of character and does not define their reasoning abilities or character generally.
Please stop saying that Musk's Aspergers explains or excuses his blatant dishonesty and lack of integrity. It's factually incorrect and insulting to all the autistic people whose attention to detail, precision, accuracy and professional and personal integrity make the world a better place.
“He was, if anything, too unforgiving of lapses in ethical integrity as his autism made him rather rigid”. This has been my experience with autistic people as well, for what it’s worth. And I agree using autism to excuse elon for bad behaviour is quite a stretch.
thank you
So true, necessary and relatable.
Do you think Elon actually is on the spectrum? If so, what explains his blatant dishonesty and lack of integrity?
Someone with a behavioural condition deserves a degree of compassion, it does not give them carte blanche to endanger others with toxic behaviour - whether that's a product of their condition or other outside factors. In this case it seems online radicalisation of the kind that shot up during the pandemic.
Endangering others is what Musk is doing and does on a global scale due to his power. If he were doing similar on a small scale and had no wealth and power, people would be staging an intervention and getting him serious help. As it is we need to help ourselves.
Beautiful response.
Nope. You’re basically saying that “explaining the reason” behind emotional immaturity is the same thing as negating it. Utter nonsense.
Having a medical diagnosis doesn’t change the fact that he has the emotional reactivity of a child based on his tweets and other behavior that is open for the public to see. SO WHAT if it’s related to a condition like Asperger’s? So what if he is open about it? It changes absolutely nothing. (And I refer you to the comment above of a person who actually has Aspergers themselves, and denies that his emotional immaturity is likely to be from that.)
They’re actually not two sides to every story. If I’m in an argument with a six-year-old about whether there really is a man in the moon or not, there’s only one side to that story. I am so sick of people drawing false equivalences using that phrase.
Elon Musk has demonstrated openly to the world that he is emotionally immature. Trying to say that that last sentence might be untrue because he has explained he has Aspergers is just dumb.
Correct. But when said person has the information on his own diagnosis as well as access to billions of dollars and virtually any Dr or therapist alive, they do have to begin to take responsibility for how their actions are interpreted by others. Using a ASD diagnosis as an excuse for any and all bad behavior is just not taking responsibility for your own actions. Plenty of people with far less resources and intelligence are able to learn to take steps to think of consequences from their speech and actions. If Musk wants to be famous and powerful as well, he's got to start being accountable for his own behavior. Having Asperger's does not mean he is incapable of leaning about social cues or doing introspection.
I actually think someone with ASD who less power and resources may (ironically) be more inclined to take responsibility for their behavior. Most people are not billionaires and trying to get by in day day to life requires managing whatever disorders you have to the best extent possible. On the other hand, if you have Elon's money and power you can be a raging dickhead and get away with it.
Being on the spectrum does not prevent one from understanding the difference between right and wrong. I have a child on the spectrum and his moral compass is firmly intact.
Ah, so we shouldn't say anything. Seems to me that's been going on for a very long time and is largely why we're in the mess we're in, and will likely to continue a decline until we're, indeed, a third world nation. As more and more extremists find platforms and microphones, mental illness will be on rampant display. What should we do Valerie? What's your recommendation?
Interesting how Elon fan-folk are so sensitive suddenly about being woke and how to 'avoid' microaggressions towards the neuro-divergent techbronerds. The double-standard, one-way-street hierarchy of the MAGA Elonald 'fan-folk' is exhausting!
They are happy to censor, shut up, or cancel culture anyone who refutes their point of view - but they can't handle what they dish out.
According to the Royal College of Psychiatrists, "management of autism itself is chiefly about the provision of the education, training, and social support/care required to improve the person's ability to function in the everyday world".
Musk has as much access to this as any of us. Despite his lack of free will, he should still be able to consider evidence as dispassionately as he does in business.
He's claimed to have it. How do we really know? Does he have an actual diagnosis?
I appreciate you. We could all use more empathy to help find common ground and understanding.
Sorry, I'm 69 and have watched this devolution now for a decade and it isn't getting better by being "understanding." Every MAGA I've tried to be nice to and listen to, yell at me and insult me for NOT defending Trump. Look what has happened? Trump is the thug the Republicans dreamed of to grab power AND KEEP IT. Too late to be "understanding," but I'm sorry I feel that way.
Drugs are destroying his life.
Does Elon have a drug problem? That's not something I've ever heard.
You only have to listen to his endless lies about himself, being the smartest most knowledgeable person ever and the constant promises about his cars and rockets that never come true. He is a liar. A self-promoter and manipulator.
Can you be specific? Your comment amounts to name calling as it stands. Elon said he’s the smartest and most knowledgeable person ever? If he did, I’ll agree that’s absurd. Until then, I’ll view your comment as absurd.
Sam Harris has demonstrated himself time and again as someone who strives to be scrupulously honest and willing to own his mistakes. Elon Musk has neither of those qualities, to the best of my knowledge. He has not proven himself to be trustworthy or ethically consistent. Even if he released a statement that cast doubt on Harris’s claim, I would assume it was crafted by a team of screenwriters. Elon Musk can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.
Absolutely agree with this ... I'm among those who occasionally find myself disagreeing, vehemently so, with Sam on some issues, although I'm not among those who elect to "cancel" him over it. But there's no doubt in my mind that his description of how the falling out with Musk went down is absolutely the way it happened. Musk is beyond the pale, absolutely unhinged at this point.
I don’t think Musk is unhinged, he’s just an asshole. He’s a self-entitled manager type who takes credit for the hard work of others. I’ve heard no shortage of tales about Musk where he demonstrates having limited basic understanding of subjects where he’s supposedly an expert. He’s a grifter, a PT Barnum type.
Ok, put aside the text exchanges. Now what "side" do you think is missing? You can make nearly all the same conclusions from publicly available information on X. What piece of missing information do you need? Elon has so very clearly maligned Sam on X. It doesn't take a genius or a leap of faith to read how unfair (and even dangerous given his audience size and propensity to hurl BS) he's been to Sam and others.
Sam’s story about Elon isn’t unique. At some point the evidence—anecdotal, behavioral, and from his own mouth—adds up to a fair representation of the person.
Actions speak Valerie and if you think his actions are those of a person with integrity you are mistaken. Perhaps it isn't mental illness but his known drug abuse (ketamine). Either was Musk tells his side of the story in ignorant, mean spirited and often deliberate lies on his social platform daily.
Seems to me Sam is reacting to Elon’s side via Elon’s many posts about Sam on Twitter X
I would agree if we didn’t have ample resources to understand both men and their character. Both in general and in regards to one another.
What a silly thing to say.
I believe his use of X says it all.
We know what Elon believes by his actions. Trump?!
haha. ok.
And his current BFF is about 12.
I agree.
14 is very generous
I feel saddened by this situation, as I have deep respect for both you and Elon. That said, it’s clear that you, Sam, are the more grounded and measured voice here (obviously). While Elon’s brilliance and good intentions are undeniable, his current actions suggest a misalignment with the moral clarity we need at this critical time. I believe he has the capacity to reflect and adjust, but his present approach falls short of the thoughtful, honest, and balanced leadership humanity truly deserves. Thank you for speaking your truth and striving to hold Elon accountable. Hopefully, he will find his way back to a more constructive path.
As someone who has been in Recovery (12 step) for over 30 years, Elon's behavior over the last 3+ years closely mirrors that of an addict who has crossed over the threshold, losing any ability to return to "sane" behavior. Once that threshold has been crossed, the capacity to reflect and adjust is lost.
What is he addicted to? Probably immunity. He is now immune, through money, contracts, technologies and associations, from recrimination or consequences of any kind. POTENT.
But, the universe is self-correcting, so there is that.
How about Ketamine?
100% - I know a lot about ketamine addiction and it absolutely leads to delusional grandiosity. We need an intervention. Narcissistic psychopaths make up at most 5% of the human population, but in a world of 8 billion people that’s a lot of narcissistic psychopaths and they are all banding together and creating this powerful psychopathic autocrat of their new world order together.
There’s only one force powerful enough to stop that and that is the 95% of us who are not narcissistic psychopaths cohering together and absolutely putting a stop to this bullshit nonsense.
And a narcissistic psychopath richer than many countries is even more dangerous.
He abused the hell out of stimulants when I was close enough to his orbit to know. He and Trump have that in common. He didn't work those sleepless weeks ramping to mass production on sheer willpower! Ketamine makes sense, but I can't speak to that directly.
Listening to Duncan Trussel describe candidly his past struggle with Ketamine overuse really shed light on the dissociative power of ketamine. I obviously don't know the private details of Elon's use beyond what he has stated publicly but I feel it must play a role in his departure from where he was mentally before the twitter debacle.
I am very familiar with its effects when overused and Elon is a poster child.
Immunity and ketamine
Kyle Kulinski believes that is the case.
He's a Ketamine addict, so your analysis is spot on.
This is exactly the kind of baseless speculation that shouldn’t be spread. Elon Musk has openly stated that he uses ketamine in small, medically supervised doses—about once every other week—to manage depression. While ketamine does carry the potential for misuse and addiction, there is no publicly available evidence suggesting that Musk is addicted. In fact, he has directly addressed concerns about overuse, noting that excessive use would interfere with his ability to manage his demanding workload. A compassionate person wouldn’t make unfounded accusations of addiction, and a wise one would recognize that such claims dangerously verge on libel.
The question at hand here isn't addiction - it's whether chronic ketamine use might have caused the personality changes Sam is reporting. It's a solidly established fact that ketamine can cause personality changes, particularly with long term use. It's not libel, it's a well-founded hypothesis that ought to be discussed.
It's also solidly established that Covid infection can cause at least transient personality changes.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=covid+psychosis
We should be speculating about that hypothesis too. It could plausibly be both/and - chronic ketamine use could have exacerbated Covid-induced brain damage. The timing of the personality changes suspiciously fits the hypothesis.
While I’m not attempting to diagnose Musk from a distance—and I don’t think Sam or anyone else should either—I do know that he has Asperger's syndrome. Individuals with this form of autism often struggle to communicate in ways that neurotypical people perceive as normal or socially appropriate. It’s ironic that someone on the far left, who often claims to value compassion and understanding, Sam wouldn’t consider that before launching such a harsh and public attack—one that feels like a schoolyard bully rallying others to join in.
It's absurd to describe Sam Harris as "someone on the far left".
That's fine, we don't all have to agree.
Nah, there's definitely a consensus on the characteristics of far left ideology and Sam is nowhere near them.
You're right. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. It's just that some opinion's are more grounded than others.
Sam really isn't 'far left'
But if you want to belabor the point please do share a few 'far left' views that Sam shares and outline how sharing those positions means that he is, above all else, 'far left'
I'll wait.
How is Sam far left when he constantly talks about the dangers and derangement of the far-left and woke liberalism? How is he far-left when he is concerned about the influx of immigrants? It is not a matter of opinion - you are just wrong.
I suppose it depends on your definition of far left. For me, His views on guns and identity politics alone automatically exclude him from the far left.
I’m on your side Valerie but I’d agree with others that Sam is far from far left.
Sam's setting the story straight is NOT an attack, but rather a completely appropriate act of self-defense. This kind of victim-blaming is uncalled for.
I think you are wrong on this. And, there are heaps of way more harsh whistle-blowing testimonials about Elon's uncoolness out there than what Sam reveals here. Sam is absolutely spot on. Elon has crossed the line into the 'dark triad' spectrum of 'Cluster B' anti-social personality disorders - a Machiavellian Narcissistic Psychopathy.
This very repeated pattern of ruining close friendships absolutely needs to come out. There can be a dark side to being on the spectrum. All of this is not black-and-white. It’s all a big gray area. We want to heal Elon. I have tons of compassion for the abuse he received as a child in South Africa. I’ve read ‘The Power of One’ and I know how traumatic the bullying in the school systems is. I also know because I grew up in a family like Rupert Murdoch’s and Errol Musk’s, and all of these world power grabbing social Darwinist oligarchs.
I believe you meant Machiavellian—I’ve never heard of Mac Pavilion. Machiavellianism is a personality trait, not a form of psychosis. It is not a mental illness characterized by a disconnection from reality, which is the defining feature of psychosis. It’s clear that you don’t fully understand these terms and concepts well enough to make a diagnosis of Musk from afar.
Machiavellianism is usually regarded as one of the three vertices of the Dark Triad, psychopathy and narcissism being the two other. Putin is the ultimate creature of Machiavellianism.
What does that have to do with Harris' squabble with Musk?
yes, thank you for the autocorrection:-)
Please rtesearch the 'the Dark Triad' - it's a wild world of mental disorder diagnosis out there. you are encouraged by myself to take what you need and leave the rest.
Excusing liars and manipulators because they 'may' have a condition is nonsense.
How do you "know" he has Asperger's? The people who I know with diagnosed Asperger's don't, really can't, lie. They always tell the truth, even when not convenient or appropriate. Elon lies a lot. And if you're relying on Elon's assertion that he has Asperger's, it was a lie. If there was a fair market, I'd bet a lot of money he does NOT have Asperger's.
This is my experience as well
With all due respect, you are not qualified to determine who does or does not have an autism spectrum disorder. Emphasis on the word "spectrum" signifies a wide range of symptoms and behaviors that can vary greatly from person to person. (Pro tip: Recognizing what you don’t know is the most important wisdom.)
Video of Musk describing and discussing his ASD:
https://youtu.be/kVBAYmY8slM
To be clear, Valerie, I never claimed to know that he doesn't have Asperger's; I speculated that he doesn't. He has lied so much over the years (funding secured, FSD, solar roof are the most well-known. A more comprehensive list is here: https://elonmusk.today/) that I have no reason to believe him. To the contrary, when he says in the same interview that he's "absolutely obsessed with truth", my conviction that he doesn't have Asperger's strengthens and I wonder if he's just the ultimate conman.
https://www.plainsite.org/realitycheck/tesla.html is another list, albeit stale, of the fraud and lies. Aaron highlights the continued deception / lies by Elon on social media and elsewhere, but I don't think he's put it in one file since 2020.
my amateur diagnosis is Sadistic Psychopath - a terrible combination of NPD, BPD, Dark Empath even - aka. Anti-Social Psychopathy.
Who is the school yard bully here? Sam is only defending himself against one.
You missed the point entirely.
There's a difference between growing up with Aspergers and using it as an excuse to act shitty when you know you're acting shitty. See https://www.axios.com/2022/04/15/elon-musk-aspergers-syndrome
Asperger's Syndrome is a lifelong neurodevelopmental condition. While individuals with Asperger's can develop coping strategies and adaptive skills over time, it does not go away and isn’t something one simply "overcomes." Accusing someone of using their diagnosis as an "excuse" shows a lack of empathy and understanding. It dismisses the real challenges neurodivergent individuals face and unfairly oversimplifies their behavior. A more compassionate and thoughtful response is to consider a person’s intent and context rather than making assumptions. Criticizing someone without recognizing their neurological differences not only reflects ignorance and a lack of awareness—it’s also its own form of "acting shitty."
I believe that you might be missing the main point and still don’t fully understand the situation. The accusations you made do not seem to be shared by most people here. It would be wise for you to reflect on this and think twice before digging yourself deeper into this hole.
Not sure why you are going out of your way Valerie to defend a man who is continually going out of his way to hugely spread misinformation and disinformation and promote far right causes and tip the scales of multiple elections. Who cares how neurodivergent he is! We need to figure out a way to prevent his neurodivergence from causing autocratic and technocratic chaos!
So we should default to assuaging the dysfunction of the neuro-divergent? Individuals with Asperger's (I was married to one) certainly do have the ability to learn and hold the knowledge of good/bad. Their ability to communicate in ways the neurally normal can be comfortable with (a ridiculous idea on the face of it - what is normal) is a challenge, but not impossible.
Your experience with just one person with Asperger's is, in scientific terms, statistically insignificant. This is considered anecdotal evidence and isn’t enough to support broad conclusions. Keep in mind that Asperger's is part of the Autism Spectrum Disorder—spectrum being key—which reflects a wide range of symptoms and behaviors that vary greatly from person to person.
Moreover, in a time when we’re encouraged to understand and accommodate the differences of others, especially those with disabilities, your suggestion that we shouldn't "default to assuaging the dysfunction of the neuro-divergent" reveals not only a lack of understanding but also a lack of tolerance and compassion. Is it really necessary to nitpick Musk's communication style?
Yes.
Your professorial style is certainly entertaining.
What makes you feel that he didn't 'consider that?'
What makes you believe that having A's means that you can't be judged as a moral person with integrity and social awareness? (read the Helen Puckrose comment above)
As for 'harsh' - tbo I don't think it was harsh. It as a calm rebuttal of attacks made against him by a man will a gigantic megaphone. As for 'schoolyard bully' - I can only conclude you have never had the ill fortune to come across one, because they most definitely do not behave as did SH.
'far left'???? - GTFOH
A diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome would not account for his erratic behavior and the chaos he is unleashing with smears, conspiracy theories. and meddling in the business of the US Congress. Most of the engineers in Silicon Valley are priobably somewhere on the spectrum, and yoiu don't see them behaving similarly. There is clearly more going on than Asperger's tand that does warrant rebuke.
I feel that it is ok for Sam to tell others what actually happened as to why he had a falling out with Musk, and Sam has obviously come to the point in his life, where he needs to publicly express what happened, from his own personal experience of events. There is nothing harsh about this at all. This is being brave and vulnerable, to tell his version of events from his honest perspective.
Harsh and public attack? You mean a clarification of ideological positions.
Sam is on the “far-left”? 😂😂😂
Great points Rosemary.
I honestly feel like brilliance and good intentions are two of the most deniable things about him.
He is not and never was the "Chief Engineer" of anything. He used his part of his dodgy family's dodgy fortune made in Blood Diamonds and Conflict Gems in the Afrikaner wars to BUY companies from the Original Creative Geniuses who started them, then run them out and steal the credit for himself. He also violated the law when he came here on a student visa and then worked, which makes his citizenship open to revocation. His drug usage means he can't get the top security clearances to run Space-X. On top of that he's an Unreconstructed Afrikaner White Supremacist pig, like his Nazi-loving buddy Peter Thiel.
Let's not give pricks like Francis a leg to stand on by overblowing our case, eh? Tesla would 100% be dead without Elon. I was there. I know you want him to both be a POS and dumb, but we aren't blessed with a simple reality. He's BEING dumb now out of self-interest and self-delusion.
i think Tesla’s auto and battery business is bankrupt - how he’s propping it up is because he’s up to many other terrible things that are generating alternative ‘income’ or ‘financial favors’.
This is pretty unhinged. Let's dispense with the fake news, can we?
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/
Trolls are everywhere. Quick and early blocking seems to be required.
Personally, I think that any follower of Sam should be treated at least semi-seriously with a reply.
truly - that is a minor nit pick for you to even be concerned about considering the evil-natured mental Illness of our New World Autocrat🤮. Give it a rest.
That may all be true (not going to research all of those claims right now), but it's also true he's done substantial technical work of his own. The man has done software engineering, at the very least. He has founded his own companies, not just taken over existing ones that were already on the path to success. He has made decisions regarding capital and personnel for multiple companies that have gone on to be enormously successful.
I'm unsure why people try so hard to prove the idea that he's unintelligent, or simply lucky, or simply Machiavellian enough... and that this alone explains his wealth/success/whatever one likes to call it. I think it's a cowardly approach, because it means we're pretending not to have a very real and very important question in front of us:
Why, in this day and age, is an intelligent and wildly successful person like Musk so uninterested in being constructive, and so interested in being a mega-troll? Again, it's not merely that he just doesn't care about other people. At this point, I'd happily accept a Musk that does nothing but go on cruises on his super yacht. The one we have is so much worse than that.
This is a question we should want to answer thoroughly so that we can act on those answers. Because the current state of things doesn't seem sustainable. I'd offer that Musk is simply the most visible victim of a disease of social media, but maybe that's not it.
No, none of that is true.
Two million people are or more do 'software engineering' straight out of college every year worldwide. If there is one genius level product from the mind of Musk I would like to know about it. Actual technical work not business manipulation 'work'. And he was lucky when Compaq bought and average software idea from them at an enormous overvaluation.
Yeah, I just don't see this as a serious response. Do two million people or more do something like what Musk did at zip2? Just take what happened there, by itself. I don't even need to disagree with the idea that Compaq bought it at an enormous overvaluation. The fact is, if Musk had competition, and if Compaq knew about it, they could've gone somewhere else. They could've offered less. They didn't. And this enormous success has been dwarfed by Musk's achievements since.
I'm unsure what you mean by "genius level product". No, I don't think Musk ever personally produced something like PageRank. But Falcon 9 is a billion-dollar product. Model 3 is a billion-dollar product. And Musk played a substantial role in both of those things happening, even if he never wrote a line of code, or even solved a simple equation. I know this, because I'm an engineer.
It's not just about technical work, it's about noticing opportunities that others don't, and finding a way to execute (either through your own technical skills, or by employing the right people). And it's about doing that, multiple times.
I'm not claiming Musk is a technical genius... I'm claiming that his success is in substantial part a result of who he is. Technical competence, drive, vision, intelligence, adaptability, etc. were part of this.
Again, I'm confused by this need for all of Musk's achievements to have nothing to do with his positive traits.
If I didn’t know better I would think this comment area was Twitter!
Good lord. I did not expect to see this tired trope here.
His father told him in South Africa that the native people had just come down from the trees. He is a fake and sociopath
100%
Walter Isaacson's biography on Musk contradicts everything you say. He had unrestricted access to Elon, his family, friends and coworkers for two years.
I will not be renewing my Sam Harris subscription. Thanks anyway Sam I can no longer follow you bc of your Elon bashing.
Oh gawd, no wonder this world is going to hell.
I believe Elon seems to struggle with fully recognizing the extent of his power and influence—at least, that's my hope. It’s hard to imagine that he’s entirely unaware, but sometimes, in our earnest desire to speak our minds and act with the best intentions, we can become misguided and fail to grasp the impact we have on others. I hope Elon can take a step back at some point and recalibrate in this respect.
Being on the spectrum may play a role in how he navigates these dynamics, though I’m unsure to what extent. Additionally, I think Elon has always craved and enjoyed attention, and the unprecedented level he’s receiving now must be intoxicating. When you combine that with the constant, endorphin-fueled feedback loops of Twitter/X, it’s easy to see how it could cloud judgment and amplify impulsivity.
Maybe. And of all of the nepo babies of South African gem merchants I know about, he might be the most ethical. But there's also the possibility that he's just a chronically online shitposter who also happens to be rich, which may or may not have to do with the gem merchant thing. Sometimes people are psychologically deranged and the reasons are overdetermined, you know?
No one can be critical of our oligarichal overlords without someone calling it envy, it seems.
I wish I could spend one day with Elon Musk just him and I because I come from a similar old family lineage that has been prescribing to this white supremacist New World order for ever since the holy Roman empire, and I also know a lot about ketamine addiction, and this person needs a lot of healing and I could totally guide him and I’ve reached out to him, but I will not go on X and so if anybody knows how to put me in contact with him I would love to offer him a Freeday of healing recovery.
Don’t we all have good intentions? That’s not enough
I’m confused, who’s Joe and who’s jealous?
I’m not jealous and I agree with Joe. no brilliant person would have looked at Covid and said the things Musk said publicly (and now we know, privately).
Why are his good intentions "undeniable"
So weird people still willing to say things like that. At least say "I believe he still has good intentions but I could be wrong."
I’m ok with saying that and having worded it that way.
Wait, why are Elon’s brilliance and good intentions undeniable? I see little evidence of either.
Brilliance? Making cars or what?
Sorry for your misassumptions and misunderstanding.
The fact Elon was convinced Covid cases wouldn’t pass 35k suggests his intelligence isn’t what people think. Perhaps he’s been fooling people.
have you seen the recent footage of Elon talking to the firefighters in LA about the pressure system? OMG, it’s like Elon doesn’t even understand the engineering of the LA water system and what was happening there? This guy is a total plant. He is not an engineering genius. We need an intervention.
Yep. Everyone says he’s a genius. Including Sam lol but all evidence I see of Elon actually doing something suggests he’s not a genius and in many cases is below average intelligence.
And the Firefighters telling he doesn't know what he's talking about.
This is inaccurate and painfully wrong. Please retract. CalFire and LAFD are complete heroes. If you have politics on this, it lays elsewhere in LA/CA and NOT with the firefighters. Please retract.
I hear you and I saw that later. I think this is much more complex and much bigger a fire than the fire fighters "letting" the city burn. The system failed, not the firefighters. And that system has a lot of players, from Sacramento to local LA and more. That was my key issue with your comment. Peace and to better times....
There isn't enough water in ALL of California to put out fires that are spreading because of hurricane force winds. Don't blame the heroes. These fires are unprecedented.
oh yeah, have you fought a wildfire before?tell us about your successes in fighting fires, please. We are all ears, my friend.
Okay - read it. I still don't think this warrants the harsh belittling criticism you were dolling out.
No. You are wrong. Easy to see why you would think so from how he's advertising himself these days, but having been in the room with him 10-15 years ago with other extremely intelligent people, he isn't or wasn't unintelligent. He has (or had) raw intelligence in spades. He would real-time process tona of information coming at him, and if your logic and work wasn't buttoned up he would find it. Unfortunately like any tool, intelligence can be misused and squandered. He used to be aligned with goals that were productive and (politics aside) beneficial to humankind. He was never a GOOD person, and that is a trillion dollar problem. The addict bought the drug factory and it's all been downward spiral into stupidity from there. Nothing more dumb than squandered potential.
I don’t understand how he can be making such obvious mistakes if he is a genius? The Covid issue was clear to anyone who understood fairly basic math.
Sure you can, it's called motivated reasoning.
I agree this is part of it, but this motivation is coming from what, in particular? The impact of a pandemic on his businesses?
I suspect there were quite a few people roughly in Musk's position who took a very different tack. They responded "normally", looking to experts in the field... or simply waiting quietly to see what would happen.
He must've already been knee-deep in nonsense by the time the pandemic hit. Fell in with the wrong crowd?
I think people are motivated to believe he’s a genius.
And many are motivated to believe he's not to maintain their parsimonious world view. I've seen it first hand, have you? (I'm not denying he's lied, cheated, and stolen his way up from his humble emerald-mine-heir origins. But he had a real hand in technical things without which Tesla and SpaceX would not be where they are.
Now though, he's just a liability.)
Many believe Elon is one of the best video game players in the world. It turns out he’s been hiring someone to play the game for him and get his character to the top. When observed playing the game he is a pretty average video game player.
Elons genius is always hidden. Very little evidence he possesses superior engineering ability than an average engineering grad.
Look into the hyper loop and replacing planes with rockets for some clear examples of his terrible engineering ideas. More component engineers had to talk him down.
If Elon is a genius at anything it’s taking credit for other people’s work and getting most people to believe he’s is the mastermind.
Thank-you for this comment. I understand from a lot of reading that intelligence can be focused along one or several related streams. One can be a brilliant metaphysicist yet not understand how digestion works. I respect elon for his entrepreneurial skills. But he’s certainly not someone from whom I’d take medical or parenting advice! One thing I do believe about him is he’s obsessive about money and will deal with bad people like putin for personal profit over the nation’s best interests.
I think there are people who are quite bright in certain things, and woefully blind on others. Not being alert to one’s own cognitive biases often allows us to fool ourselves into thinking we have a situation sussed, when the reverse is true.
See, that's an unserious response, and Sam explained in his essay why. We saw what was happening in other countries by the time the bet was made.
And again, to bolster his position, Musk cited statistics about how many Americans had died from COVID-19 up to that time. This is a nonsensical point to make for obvious reasons: we cannot expect casualties, or a casualty rate, from a communicable disease to remain anything close to constant in the early days of an outbreak. This is a simple applied math problem.
We had the information we needed by March of 2020 to know this was going to be a big deal, and that we'd hit -- easily hit -- 35k cases. However, some people weren't paying that much attention. Maybe Musk just wasn't paying much attention. I think it's more likely he was paying attention, but that his attention was just on sources that were (to say the least) disreputable.
There are quite a few people in this thread who argue Musk is just stupid. He certainly behaves like a stupid person on twitter, so there's something to this: "stupid is as stupid does". But we also know that he's almost certainly a quite intelligent person. He has looked at situations and noticed potential solutions that others haven't. He has correctly evaluated the skill and dedication of engineers and managers that he subsequently employed. He has managed to convince other intelligent people (importantly, investors) to help him with his work.
In my view, just calling Musk stupid, or downplaying his achievements to the point where his contribution was nothing but luck, is a cowardly way to evaluate the situation.
What we have here is an intelligent and very successful person... who acts like a stupid person. He has been co-opted by bad ideas. And these bad ideas lead him to bad behaviors.
Several historians have compared him to Henry Ford, which I find spot-on.
Like many people, I’m sure he has areas of high intelligence. But he is not the genius many thought he was. That is plain to see.
I did actually lol that’s when I sold my Tesla stock. I was thinking this guy is unstable and unserious. Jokes on me I guess. We live in an era where unstable and unserious people rise to the top.
Can you say "Kakistocracy" (government by the worst)?
On a hunch I sold two-thirds of my crypto! I believe Elon has had so much influence on that market that, watching his latest antics, it might be heading for another crash…
Perfectly said
As someone who has watched, respected and followed Elon at length for nearly 10 years, this story makes perfect sense. Elon has absolutely lost it. The man who I felt could help turn the tide of western civilizations decline, keep free speech a priority, help push us into a new yet cautious future when it came to AI and robots and who might even be able to put enough backing behind a moderate(dare I say centrist) presidential candidate for then to win, has disappeared. He has grown increasingly disconnected from reality and honestly has become so incredibly childish over the past 3 years that I have blocked him on every social media simple because I can’t stand seeing the BS anymore. It’s sad, he could have accomplished so much in bettering the west, he threw it all away to join the conspiracy cabal.
I'm in the exact same place. He was a huge idol of mine since 2013 but he is nearly unrecognizable to me today.
I feel you and thank you for your share here.
Elon has been purposely deceiving people for decades.
One time when he was dating Amber hurst, and I think Jennifer Laurence or someone else from Hollywood was there that they were trying to impress, some beautiful actress, Errol Musk came in and the topic of Donald Trump came up. Errol Musk began praising Donald Trump and said ‘you know, he’s one of us’ to Elon and his brother in front of the Hollywood actresses. The women were shocked and basically went into the usual reaction to any mention of Trump, which is that he’s a disgusting buffoon.
Later, when they were no longer in the presence of the American actresses, Elon and his brother got really mad at their dad for praising Donald Trump in front of the girls that they were trying to impress. And that is when Errol explained to his sons that Trump‘s family was on the same team as their family. and what was the game that that team was playing? Social Darwinist autocratic New World Order.
That is when Elon realized that he could not reveal to his Silicon Valley or most American acquaintances what his and his family’s true politics and ideology stood for. He has absolutely been deceiving us about who he is. We are now seeing who he truly is. He totally made up a lie about how he was estranged from his father because he didn’t want people making the political connections about this New World order agenda.
Source or you made that shit up. Who would even be reporting that? Maybe you've been on social media too long and think disembodied cameras just follow the action around?
Disrupters Podcast: Interview with Errol Musk Episode:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disruptors/id1076679649?i=1000669637099
I’ll totally post the interview. I’ll be right on it. It’s I listen to an hour and a half interview with Errol musk saying these words out of his mouth what do you think it was an AI fake or something?
Same.
Sam, you need to stop saying things like, "we fully align" on immigration, the woke mind virus, etc. with people like Elon. I've heard your takes on these issues many times, and while you're not "woke" you're also not aligned with these people. It makes you seem a) ignorant of their views (you need to do your research better-get a team if you have to), b) trying to maintain your heterodox bonafides (you don't need to keep pointing out how un-woke you are for cred), c) like your only argument with these people is that they are being a bit mean but for the most part they are correct on substance. They are nefariously using and often twisting this information i.e., the decade old UK grooming gang scandal for political ends to stoke hatred and make personal gain. They aren't confused. And your friends aren't scared of Elon, they agree with him for the most part, and their incentives are financial and social. Look at Hegseths hearing, the only questions he was asked by Republicans was about DEI and wokeness. This is what all your friends are doing everyday all day to stay in with their right Leaning audiences. You don't do that. Stop aligning yourself with these people even in theory it's embarrassing to those of us who follow you.
Please read the relevant paragraph again. Doesn't this cover it?
"The problem with Elon, is that he makes no effort to get his facts straight when discussing any of these topics, and he regularly promotes lies and conspiracy theories manufactured by known bad actors, at scale. (And if grooming were really one of his concerns, it’s strange that he couldn’t find anything wrong with Matt Gaetz.)"
First, thanks for taking the time to reply, Sam. Forgive the length of my response but I do hope you take the time to read it. There are a few issues that that paragraph does not cover when it comes to what I think of, as being in alignment with someone or something. I think you may mean a general agreement about the existence of certain issues (i.e., the US border was handled poorly and needs addressing), but when you speak about others who not only hold those views, but are obsessed and consumed by it, you make it sound like there is very little daylight between you. I don't think the constant throat clearing on your part is necessary or helpful. Even if you disagree that's not what you're trying to do or say, I believe that you're really doing yourself a disservice and I hope you may consider communicating it differently because at the moment you seem to want to bend over backwards to not set yourself apart from the people you criticize. And then there are, sorry to say Sam, other failings of your attention to detail in some of these cases. I'd like to point out the difference between you and others that you should more clearly embrace and also suggest some improvement on your end if I may be so arrogant. Trust me, all offered in the spirit of Lex Fridman level love.
In my view, alignment is not just a matter of agreeing that there are certain issues in society, it's also a matter of how central or existential you think the problem is and how exteeme your responses are to it. In other words it's also about proportionality and behaviour. If you were fully aligned with Elon and others we would see it in your output. Thankfully we do not. Did you consider even for one second, voting for Trump because of the border, or because of Trans women in sport, or because of cringe DEI policy? Of course not. Its one thing to agree that the US border has been a debacle, or that DEI policy is cringe at best and damaging at worst, but the attention given to it and subsequent behaviour of powerful people matters. Leave the conspiracies aside. Elon and your other friends/ex-friends believe woke policies in academia is the biggest deal on the planet (you can add the rest, i.e., everything Trans). How do we know this? Because it's all they ever talk about, and they will fit it in anywhere, especially in response to criticism of themselves, their friends, or Trump. More than that, they have literally carried water for, or proactively worked within their powers and platforms, to re-elect Trump. This wasn't just Elon, it was rife across the whole alternative media sphere. These names of current and former friends is pretty long, Sam. Lex, Eric, Brett, Joe, Dave, Elon, Konstantin, Gad, JBP. They are not all the same, but these people are definitely far more aligned with each other than they are with you. If they can't defend, they minimize, or make false equivalencies, some outright lie, some I believe are having years long mental health episodes (i.e., Brett).
I do see a lot of alignment among these people you have been, or are currently connected to and you can tell by their output if you pay enough attention. Lex for example, doesn't simply refrain from criticizing Elon, he praises him at every opportunity (they pretty much all do). Is that fear? Opportunism? Or do they actually believe that Elon and Trump are that wonderful? Either way, YOU don't let your opinions be swayed by fear, or opportunism, and your not an idiot as far as I can tell. So no, you're not aligned with these people. Take that as a win and stop saying stuff like that, for your own sake.
Lastly, in terms of the research issue. I'll offer you one example (there are lots but I've gone on long enough). You said recently to Bill Maher that you didn't think JBP was in Trumpistan. Are you aware that pre-election he did an entire podcast on psychoanalysing Trump and his band of baffoons (Elon, Vivek, Gabbard, RFK Jr.) which was full off nothing but praise and outright lies to promote the importance of electing him president. That is not Trump adjacent that is right in the thick of it. He has a lot of other material that is pretty reprehensible too. You seem to base your opinion of him on a time (your public debates) when he was a bit more sane. He is a lost cause. If you haven't watched that podcast, you should because it's an eye opener. If you have seen it and pass it off as nothing, I'm baffled. I don't expect that you should know everything anyone has ever said. Your off X, your not online 24/7 like Destiny. But when it comes to these big fish, if you're going to associate or be linked to them, I would keep very update to date on the crap they are selling beyond the horizon of your attention.
Hope you and your family are well, and that your home is safe. All the best.
Well said... I don't envy Sam's (or anyone else in the public sphere) responsibility to stay up-to-date with what all of the other public figures are saying. What a mess.
Hey Sam, I hope read and reply to Kyle's comments. I think he makes some really good points.
Wouldn’t that imply (if he makes no effort to get his facts straight, promotes lies and conspiracy theories) that you don’t “fully align” on these topics? Either he believes the lies, and you have different views on the topic, or he cynically repeats them, knowing they are false, and his views are essentially opaque? I agree with the above sentiment; “we fully align” is probably too strong of a statement.
I must say, Sam, I very much agree with this statement
I take it Elon did not pay up on the $1 million as promised? If so, that speaks volumes to me.
He didn’t pay the 1 million BUT he did slander Harris publicly on multiple occasions.
Were you looking for honor? ha!
LOL! Has Elon been learning obligation management techniques from the Felon in Chief?... or is it vice versa? ... chicken or egg, but now it's a vicious circle.
Musk is the perfect argument for why obscene personal wealth is so incredibly dangerous
How don't people get this? This is just variation of "there are no benevolent dictators".
Benevolent billionaire is simply a flawed system and no matter how much goodwill or other social band aids you put on it it'll never scale to what we actually need. It's incredibly frustrating to observe this tbh.
Well said Sam. Musk has become a threat to democracy and I heard he will have an office in the White House. I truly believe we are an oligarchy, and have been for many years. Musk managed to bring Bezos and Zuckerberg into the oligarchy orbit to seal the deal, so to speak.
Regarding the LA fires, I look forward to your assessment of the state and local government role in this tragedy. Before, during, and hopefully soon , after the fires are tamed.
Be well.
I thought he wrote that on his last posting? He evacuated, are you saying they were lucky enough to have not lost their house? I’d be very happy if you could confirm that. Thank you.
Having been evacuated for three long weeks from a fire in '20, it is very hard to know what's going on inside the evacuated area. Early responders are not prioritizing making public social media posts. Satellite heat maps can't distinguish between fire and hot smoke columns. I thought my house was gone for sure, until photos and videos from the neighborhood started to leak out over a week later. Wildfire is very chaotic and whole neighborhoods burnt with a few random survivors (or the inverse) is the norm, not the exception.
My two cents: He and his family might still have effectively lost their house. I think the wrote that most of the neighbourhood was burned down, including stores, his daughters' school, etc etc. So even if his house is still standing, it might be impossible to have a normal life in the neighbourhood for months or years to come
Point well taken. I have a son and DIL who’s pregnant with their first child in SW LA County. So far they’ve been spared except for the awful air quality. So, wife and I have been watching things more closely than the average person outside of CA. We are on the East Coast.
Yes, I somehow missed that paragraph:
“Based on several reports received in the middle of the night, I became nearly certain that we had lost our home. Later evidence has convinced me that it was spared—while two doors away houses were destroyed. “
Thank you. I’m happy to learn that. I’ll correct my post.
100% Sam. The world as we know is appears to have devolved into one devoid of any sense of decency. Its the Jerry Springer show writ large, and nobody seems to realize how uncool Elon, Trump and the entire cadre of right wing bozos in Washington are. Dogs still seem to be able to sniff each others asses, but humans, at least in this country, no longer care about or are able to discern the fact that the person they are listening to is a total douche.
I read someplace that "intelligence without wisdom is dangerous". Maybe Robert Sapolsky. Anyway, to our great peril, we tend to conflate intellgence and wisdom, intelligence and virtue. Give me average minds with ethics and humanity over these brilliant libertarian tech child-men. Please.
to our great peril, we tend to conflate intelligence and wisdom, intelligence and virtue with wealth and more of all to those with more wealth.
A post like this takes immense courage and integrity and is the kind of thing that makes me proud to pay to subscribe to Making Sense. The fact so many others won't speak out, even rich powerful people, goes to show it's not local councillors in Rotherham, England who are afraid of speaking up.
What's strange to me is how some people struggle seeing both sides of Elon.
He simultaneously is the greatest industrial entrepreneur of our era almost singlehandedly helping the U.S. make progress on building innovative new industrial products:(https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/why-americas-future-could-hinge-on)
I love this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDZ9REOh2xA&t=23s), which I think really gets at the heart of what makes him great. What he talks about may seem simple and obvious but having the combination of intelligence, experience, confidence, and work ethic to make it work is incredibly rare in a CEO.
At the same time, he is also clearly a borderline autistic, uninformed, overconfident, braggadocio, whose political opinions and beliefs about social change shouldn't be given the least bit of deference.
It amazes me that some people struggle with accepting the fact that both of these things can be true.
The problem is systemic. Elon Musk is just the greatest example of it at the moment: the problem is an erosion of authority and the narcissism that steps in to take its place. By that I mean, there is nothing that keeps Elon Musk in his lane of the highway, namely building great things. He is allowed to swerve all over the place and even find himself speeding along in a lane that requires great empathy and understanding of human beings on a micro and macro scale. He does not possess these skills and he will never be able to develop them to the extent required. But the state of our democracy at the moment allows this kind of reckless driving not only to occur, but it gets applauded.
That’s a good point, however it doesn’t surprise me. We like simple things - something is good or bad. Seeing every side of something makes it complex and confuses the simple value judgement. It requires much more effort.
Please see my comments about how he is ‘a plant’ that is being set up by a whole team within the shadow government
What!? 😂
I did see them and was intrigued. Maybe you can say a bit more about who/what is doing the setting up? I’m not sure I understand fully what you mean.
I will forever find Sam's defense of Trump's "both sides" statement perplexing. Trump wasn't saying "I think the white supremacists were good people"- this is true. But he WAS saying that there were many good people who attended the unite the right rally. In other words, while white supremacists and neo nazis were at the rally, many of the other people there were good people. This is hard to reconcile with the facts on the ground at the march. Once the rally started engaging in things like chanting "jews will not replace us" and the other despicable things that the rally engaged in, good people would have left. Trump was well aware of this during the press conference- he had been discussing it prior to saying to there were good people on both sides.
Why is it so atrocious to say that Trump's statement about "good people" was inclusive of people who participated in a pretty disgusting march?
ETA: To be clear, I'm saying that it's awfully hard to claim that someone isn't a neo nazi or white supremacist when they march in a literal white supremacist/neo-nazi rally. Sure, they might not have filled out the registration card to join the groups, but their actions speak pretty loudly. And not leaving the rally once it became clear what was happening speaks very loudly to someone's character. Calling someone a good or fine person after attending such a thing is a pretty despicable statement, and one that I don't have any problem criticizing Trump for making.
This is 100% true. If you read the transcript, Trump makes it clear that people who support traitors like Robert E Lee are "very good people." From my view, Confederate-supporting who love Robert E Lee are not in fact "very fine people."
💯 Sam has a blind spot on this one. Agree with & appreciate him on so much of what he thinks & writes about but this and his position on gun safety/control (as well as some inaccurate & misleading takes on Kamala Harris he's shared) truly perplex me.
I can't often fault Sam's reasoning, but I think he sometimes weighs the importance of things badly. It's gotten noticeably better since he left Xitter, but he still gets hung up on the principle of certain issues in ways that make the outcome (real effects on real people now) worse.
Unfortunately, now-a-days, we simply cannot imagine the potential that we have been influenced by either an AI generated fake video or by algorithms. I find on frequent occasion somebody who just seem spot on might have a very different take than me on one specific incident. I’m starting to chalk it up to AI fakes.
You're starting to get delusional is what you're doing. Stop looking so hard for a conspiracy when the answer is simple yet unsatisfying.
He was clearly trying to draw an imaginary line between the boogieman Bad Racists and his supporters. As so often happens with him everybody spun it wrong, EXCEPT his supporters. They heard it loud and clear that he knows they're just reasonable people with reasonable concerns about the purity of their society or whateverthefuck. The left spectacularly diluted their message of rightfully shaming the racist outburst of that event by getting the details wrong and giving them an out.
I think it’s motivated reasoning. He made it explicit in this post: “Not only have I never advocated lying to defeat Trump, I’ve taken great pains to defend Trump from the most damaging lie ever told about him.”
He uses that example to earn credibility with trump supporters. If he’s willing to point out when the left lies about Trump, his critique of Trump appears less likely to be based on lies. At this point he’s too invested in using that talking point to that end to look into the issue any further
That would be a great theory if you knew nothing of Sam Harris or Trump fans.
I’ve been following Sam’s stuff for over a decade
I don't take issue with folks defending the statue. As I said above, I take issue with the people who heard a group of men carrying tiki torches chanting things like "Jews will not replace us!" and decided not to leave. THAT'S who Trump was saying were fine people.
If I showed up to a pro-choice rally and started hearing leftists chanting "From the River to Sea" I would leave, even though I am unabashedly pro-choice. The people who wouldn't are either supporting the statement or so unfeeling about how awful it is so as to be fine with it and being associated with it. Neither of those choices make someone a "good" or "fine" person.
Hanging around with white supremacists and neo nazis WHILE they're having a neo-nazi white supremacist rally makes you a bad person. Calling out Trump for saying the opposite is completely fair game.
It's possible to dislike the people on your own side. I've never left an anti-Trump march because of the bell-ends on my side. Would you?
If I realized I was surrounded by literal white supremacists and neo-nazis then yes, absolutely I would leave. Why on earth would you march in lock stop with those men? If you think that’s okay then you waive the right to be outraged when people say you were marching with nazis and white supremacists- it’s what you’re literally doing. When they start chanting horrific things and you continue to march with them then it signals, at a minimum, that you acquiesce to and don’t object to those statements.
This isn’t hard people.
You said “the press conference”. Are you aware there was one before the one Sam quotes?
I think the fact that Elon feels the need to lie and pretend he is one of the best gamers in the world says enough about his ego. Its as fragile as it comes. This is probably out of sight for most people, but he recently streamed on X playing the highly anticipated Path Of Exile 2 game. He was on one of the highest level accounts atm, while pretending it was his to look like a chad to the gaming community, which he so much identifies with… Its just such a lowpoint for the worlds richest man.
I was going to point this out as well. And the Razzing from the gaming community streamers probably hurts his ego more than most people could understand. It truly says a lot about where he is now , and perhaps how he has been for a long time.
Update on this story: Elon removed a big streamers checkmark on X and went on a rant about how this streamer sucks at video games, after the streamer calling out his fake gaming. He reversed it for damage control, this is just beyond embarrassing…
lol this is gold
I know Trump, musk, teal, Putin. They are all just weak flailing around with their patriarchal phallic weapon systems. The 99% of us who are not narcissistic psychopaths need to put a stop to this we must cohere!
What I find most unusual about his behavior of late, is that despite being extremely intelligent, he appears to be taking tweets on X posted by random people and agreeing with their apparently unsourced fact-based statements, or their opinions posing as facts, simply because of confirmation bias. While I certainly have my own opinions, there is NO source on the Internet that I do not question, and source for myself. Even from Sam. :)
It’s called fantasy addiction, and it is fueled by the gaslighting of cognitive dissonance
I despise anything that falls in the category of 'gossip' and decline to discuss the character of individuals and instead address ideas unless they are simply impossible to separate from an individual. This is one of those cases. When it comes to the richest and, arguably, most influential person in the world and his dubious relationship with the truth, it is particularly important to set the record straight and address the lack of honesty and integrity.
We really need to care about what is true and hold people who don't care about what is true in low esteem until they rectify this failing. Nothing else will incentivise them to do so. If people continue to reward those who engage in ideologically-biased narratives and partisan speaking points with no attempts to be accurate, fair-minded and self-aware about the tendency to motivated reasoning and confirmation bias that we all have, we will just spawn more people willing to do that.
I am always vulnerable to accusations of indulging in my own motivated reasoning and confirmation bias when it comes to criticising Musk, Trump or the right more broadly because I am open about being left-wing myself. I would be very unlikely to ever vote right even when right-wing leaders are honest, principled and care about what is true because I favour left-wing policies overall.
However, I would remind people inclined to dismiss my critiques as partisan bias that I have spent the last decade criticising those on the left who prioritise ideological narratives over what is true and hold illiberal views and helping people to protect themselves from being impacted by these ideologies. Many of those people have been ethical conservatives whom I respect and recognise as essential to a well-functioning liberal democracy.
You are needed more than ever right now, ethical conservatives. We need you not to make the same mistake that so many well-intentioned people on the left did when they minimised the problem of illiberalism and rejection of truth on the left because they felt that those people, while over-zealous and not altogether rational, were a minority and had their hearts in the right place while the illiberal elements on the other side did not. The liberal left is reaping the consequences of not having acted decisively to get its own house in order and hold those who held illiberal values and rejection of truth in low esteem and prevent them from forming a dominant moral orthodoxy that did great harm.
Don't succumb to the same trap, genuine conservatives who care about what is true and value your cultural heritage and want to conserve the principles underlying your own liberal democracies. Please be alert to those on your own side who do not care about what is true, who hold authoritarian values and spout ideologically-biased narratives divorced from reality and seek to form an illiberal moral orthodoxy based on those narratives. Don't let them. Hold firm to your conservative philosophical traditions that values evidence and reason and truth and your cultural heritage of liberal democratic values that foregrounds individual liberty and individual responsibility. Yours is a noble and steadying political philosophy that holds societies steady and rejects the revolutionaries and reactionaries.
All of us who care about evidence-based epistemology and consistently liberal principles must come together now to push back the ideological narrative builders and illiberal story-tellers, but ethical conservatives are those best able to do this on the right and we all really need you to do that.
Helen, nice to see you here - I'm a fan. I loved your work in exposing pseudo-intellectual journals. Got a great laugh from that.
I remember Ms. Pluckrose fondly from the remarkable "Sokal Squared" hoax some years ago, which was very telling - and very funny!
Alas, her collaborators in that admirable project appear to have lost their minds in subsequent years. I last encountered James Lindsay ranting about "white genocide", and Peter Boghossian giving a speech - in Hungary, I believe - in which he sounded like Col. Jack D. Ripper from Dr. Strangelove, except that it was (of course) the woke people rather than the commies who were going to drain us of our precious bodily fluids.
I dislike woke stuff intensely and am gratified to see it finally receding. But, my God, the professional and obsessive anti-woke people somehow manage to make woke people look sane by comparison! I get the feeling that some of the professional anti-wokesters find it difficult to make out a shopping list without taking a few swipes at "cultural Marxists" or whatever. "Ah! The grocery store is out of the cereal I usually buy! It's because of diversity training! No, it's the trans agenda! Well, they'll never make me take their damn vaccine!"
At this point, I just assume that anyone who was even tangentially connected to the "Intellectual Dark Web" - and whose last name is not Harris, of course - has become a hysterical anti-woke crank. I am therefore happy and relieved to have my priors corrected, ever so slightly, by seeing Helen Pluckrose commenting on Sam's Substack, writing the sorts of eminently reasonable things for which I remember her in years past.